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Curious what makes you feel that way about the future? I ask because on countless objective measures, mankind is better off now than at any time in history. Wha

Curious what makes you feel that way about the future? I ask because on countless objective measures, mankind is better off now than at any time in history. What am I missing? Granted, we've got problems ecological, social, demographic, and so forth. But these don't seem to be greater than the problems we've overcome in the past.

mindcrime 3y ago
Curious what makes you feel that way about the future? Hopefully just "recency bias" and a weird, momentary, glitch in the development of our society! That is to say, hopefully I'm just over-reacting to something very short-term. But to answer the question: There are a lot of factors, and some are probably stronger signals, and some are weaker. So my sentiment right now is more about the summation of a lot of "things" that, taken collectively, seem to me to paint a dismal picture. I mean: (this will be a very US centric list, BTW) 1. A flaming moron and wannabe authoritarian like Donald Trump being elected POTUS. And what appeared to be an associated, pronounced, increase in the overall level of hatred, jingoism, and bigotry during his term.[1] 2. That a senile, decrepit, useless POS like Joe Biden is the best we can do to replace Trump. 3. That Trump is (apparently) being taken seriously as a POTUS candidate again. 4. That Trump or Biden will very likely be the next POTUS. 5. The repeal of Roe vs. Wade 6. That on the Republican side, even though Trump may be the presumptive nominee, there does not seem to be a single member of the group of challengers who is worth a shit. Basically no high profile Republican is willing to be the "adult in the room" and both A. call out Trump for being the piece of shit he is, and B. behave like a reasonable, rational, educated, dignified adult. 7. Climate change, and the lack of progress we seem to be making in addressing it. 8. Economically, we seem pathologically incapable of rooting out corruption, regulatory capture, and cronyism. Creating the kind of Capitalism that should be just a straw-man caricature used by advocates of other ideologies. But no, we've actualized it into reality. 9. Globally, the overall rise in the appeal of authoritarian / dictatorial leaders. 10. Globally, an apparent rise in the appeal of nationalism and the associated behaviors: jingoism, hatred, bigotry, racism. 11. Decaying infrastructure: bridges collapsing, trains derailing, people being killed. 12. Our seeming inability to get a handle on excessive use of force by police. 13. Our inability to reign in "civil asset forfeiture" 14. The rise of nutty conspiracy theories and the cult like behavior of the followers of this crap (qanon, for example, but also this "15 minute city" stuff, etc) 15. Watching our technological progress all too often be used for deleterious ends, and fostering an increase in concentration of power. Facial recognition, gait analysis, etc. being used by governments to surveil their citizenry, etc. 16. Homelessness seems to be on the rise, at least locally in my area. Seems like every couple of weeks or so I see more and more people panhandling around the area, and see more tents popping up in the woods on the edge of highways. I haven't looked up the stats nationwide, but I suspect this is a growing problem all over the US (and maybe in other places). 17. I'm sure I could go on, but what's the point. I imagine anybody reading this either gets the point or they don't (note that that's orthogonal to whether or not anyone agrees that all of these items are, in fact, reasons for despair). [1]: Note - I'm not saying Trump is a racist or anything, or even that he intentionally inspired that kind of behavior in people. But I think the point that he somehow manages to bring out the worst in people is beyond question.
jfengel 3y ago
It's the fact that people are actively working to make those economic, social, demographic, etc. problems worse. Not merely resisting solutions that don't favor them, but seeking ways to make people's lives worse even without benefit to themselves. The conspiracy theories are not merely gullible or greedy. They are actively choosing to be cruel. Gullibility can be taught; greedy can be negotiated. I have no tools for mitigating the craving for cruelty.
tivert 3y ago
>> I used to be something of a populist (not in the "right wing Populism" sense mind), and a big believer in human potential, and thought the future could one day look something like the Star Trek: TNG world. But with every passing day, I become just a tiny hair more misanthropic and believe that all the future holds is a cyberpunk dystopia, and eventually the heat-death of the universe. > Curious what makes you feel that way about the future? I ask because on countless objective measures, mankind is better off now than at any time in history. "Objective measures" tend to by kind of myopic (e.g. a hyperbolic example: you're politically powerless and don't have healthcare but you're objectively better off because have color TV which not even kings had in the past). They're a data-driven trap that often blind over-analytical people like software engineers. One thing that sucks more now is the greater interconnectedness of society. It's gotten to the point where local connectedness is weakening and withering, preventing people from finding security in a comfortable, agreeable community that's not constantly being buffeted from the outside. That pushes the atomized people into a fearful panic-mode, which increases mistrust and the appeal of conspiracy theories. It's a hard problem to solve because modern-day dogma says more interconnectedness = more better!
brnaftr361 3y ago
If you could ask a caged rat how they're doing, and a wild rat how they're doing, do you think their answers would differ? And you'll have to prove those measures are objective, too.
cykros 3y ago
Better off is relative I guess is the point I'd raise here. Are most peoples lives easier, with overall life expectancy up, and general health as well? Yes. Are we closer to the possibility of an overnight event that could lead to the overall near extinction of the species? Well, that one's a yes too, though perhaps it could be argued that we've moved back a little since the 60s. Though, with the doomsday clock at 90 seconds right now, at least some would take the argument that we're still closer now, considering the number of players on the world stage being a bit less predictable than when it was just two major nuclear powers squaring off. Sort of reminds me of economic cycles -- with great leverage comes great liquidity, but also, great instability.

mindcrime 3y ago

Curious what makes you feel that way about the future? Hopefully just "recency bias" and a weird, momentary, glitch in the development of our society! That is to say, hopefully I'm just over-reacting to something very short-term. But to answer the question: There are a lot of factors, and some are probably stronger signals, and some are weaker. So my sentiment right now is more about the summation of a lot of "things" that, taken collectively, seem to me to paint a dismal picture. I mean: (this will be a very US centric list, BTW) 1. A flaming moron and wannabe authoritarian like Donald Trump being elected POTUS. And what appeared to be an associated, pronounced, increase in the overall level of hatred, jingoism, and bigotry during his term.[1] 2. That a senile, decrepit, useless POS like Joe Biden is the best we can do to replace Trump. 3. That Trump is (apparently) being taken seriously as a POTUS candidate again. 4. That Trump or Biden will very likely be the next POTUS. 5. The repeal of Roe vs. Wade 6. That on the Republican side, even though Trump may be the presumptive nominee, there does not seem to be a single member of the group of challengers who is worth a shit. Basically no high profile Republican is willing to be the "adult in the room" and both A. call out Trump for being the piece of shit he is, and B. behave like a reasonable, rational, educated, dignified adult. 7. Climate change, and the lack of progress we seem to be making in addressing it. 8. Economically, we seem pathologically incapable of rooting out corruption, regulatory capture, and cronyism. Creating the kind of Capitalism that should be just a straw-man caricature used by advocates of other ideologies. But no, we've actualized it into reality. 9. Globally, the overall rise in the appeal of authoritarian / dictatorial leaders. 10. Globally, an apparent rise in the appeal of nationalism and the associated behaviors: jingoism, hatred, bigotry, racism. 11. Decaying infrastructure: bridges collapsing, trains derailing, people being killed. 12. Our seeming inability to get a handle on excessive use of force by police. 13. Our inability to reign in "civil asset forfeiture" 14. The rise of nutty conspiracy theories and the cult like behavior of the followers of this crap (qanon, for example, but also this "15 minute city" stuff, etc) 15. Watching our technological progress all too often be used for deleterious ends, and fostering an increase in concentration of power. Facial recognition, gait analysis, etc. being used by governments to surveil their citizenry, etc. 16. Homelessness seems to be on the rise, at least locally in my area. Seems like every couple of weeks or so I see more and more people panhandling around the area, and see more tents popping up in the woods on the edge of highways. I haven't looked up the stats nationwide, but I suspect this is a growing problem all over the US (and maybe in other places). 17. I'm sure I could go on, but what's the point. I imagine anybody reading this either gets the point or they don't (note that that's orthogonal to whether or not anyone agrees that all of these items are, in fact, reasons for despair). [1]: Note - I'm not saying Trump is a racist or anything, or even that he intentionally inspired that kind of behavior in people. But I think the point that he somehow manages to bring out the worst in people is beyond question.

jfengel 3y ago

It's the fact that people are actively working to make those economic, social, demographic, etc. problems worse. Not merely resisting solutions that don't favor them, but seeking ways to make people's lives worse even without benefit to themselves. The conspiracy theories are not merely gullible or greedy. They are actively choosing to be cruel. Gullibility can be taught; greedy can be negotiated. I have no tools for mitigating the craving for cruelty.

tivert 3y ago

>> I used to be something of a populist (not in the "right wing Populism" sense mind), and a big believer in human potential, and thought the future could one day look something like the Star Trek: TNG world. But with every passing day, I become just a tiny hair more misanthropic and believe that all the future holds is a cyberpunk dystopia, and eventually the heat-death of the universe. > Curious what makes you feel that way about the future? I ask because on countless objective measures, mankind is better off now than at any time in history. "Objective measures" tend to by kind of myopic (e.g. a hyperbolic example: you're politically powerless and don't have healthcare but you're objectively better off because have color TV which not even kings had in the past). They're a data-driven trap that often blind over-analytical people like software engineers. One thing that sucks more now is the greater interconnectedness of society. It's gotten to the point where local connectedness is weakening and withering, preventing people from finding security in a comfortable, agreeable community that's not constantly being buffeted from the outside. That pushes the atomized people into a fearful panic-mode, which increases mistrust and the appeal of conspiracy theories. It's a hard problem to solve because modern-day dogma says more interconnectedness = more better!

brnaftr361 3y ago

If you could ask a caged rat how they're doing, and a wild rat how they're doing, do you think their answers would differ? And you'll have to prove those measures are objective, too.

cykros 3y ago

Better off is relative I guess is the point I'd raise here. Are most peoples lives easier, with overall life expectancy up, and general health as well? Yes. Are we closer to the possibility of an overnight event that could lead to the overall near extinction of the species? Well, that one's a yes too, though perhaps it could be argued that we've moved back a little since the 60s. Though, with the doomsday clock at 90 seconds right now, at least some would take the argument that we're still closer now, considering the number of players on the world stage being a bit less predictable than when it was just two major nuclear powers squaring off. Sort of reminds me of economic cycles -- with great leverage comes great liquidity, but also, great instability.