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Rust definitely seems cool as a no-compromises systems language. Why is Mozilla developing it, though? What is the intended use? Supposedly it will be used by

Rust definitely seems cool as a no-compromises systems language. Why is Mozilla developing it, though? What is the intended use? Supposedly it will be used by Firefox, but for what? Rendering? JavaScript compilation?

naner 15y ago
I believe it is supposed to be for whatever replaces Firefox/Gecko.
- fusiongyro 15y ago
  Odd, because their FAQ is quite clear about this: > Are you going to use this to suddenly rewrite the browser and change everything? Is the Mozilla Corporation trying to force the community to use a new language? > No. The Mozilla Corporation's involvement is at the labs level: the group concerned with doing experiments. The point is to explore ideas. There is currently no plan to incorporate any Rust-based technology into Firefox. https://github.com/mozilla/rust/wiki/Doc-project-FAQ https://github.com/mozilla/rust/wiki/Doc-project-FAQ
  - naner 15y ago
    In a previous post about Rust on HN one of the Mozilla devs claimed that Rust was a result of headaches they've had building Firefox. The language isn't to be used in Firefox, but to (eventually, some day) to be used in whatever supersedes Firefox. They would be starting from scratch. And this is probably very very far in the future. Why else would Mozilla develop a new language if they didn't intend to use it for their products?
    - fusiongyro 15y ago
      I didn't see that post, but every other post I've seen there has been a lot of hand wringing about being forced to use this language or be shut out of Firefox development, which is very clearly not currently even in the long-term plans. They've also been very clear that people should not form indelible opinions about Rust since they expect it to continue evolving at a rapid rate. You're right that it would be idiotic to spend the money and time to develop this if they didn't intend to use it in their products, but they've gone out of their way to make people understand that the Rust they can see today is not going to be shoved down their throats. Whether some eventual successor Rust that may or may not resemble the one we have today is used for some kind of rewrite is probably a foregone conclusion, but they clearly don't want us deciding whether to support or object based on what exists today. I sound like I'm making a big deal out of a minor distinction, but I don't like seeing what I saw on Slashdot, which was essentially, A) Rust devs announce Rust 0.1, B) someone submits story to Slashdot saying Mozilla is forcing everyone to abandon C++ and switch to Rust in the near future, C) everyone on Slashdot complains that Rust isn't going to perform and ought to have language features X, Y, Z. This cycle misinformation/non-information is going to persist as long as we emphasize the foregone conclusion that this might be used in some kind of far-distant rewrite ahead of the actual news, which is just that 0.2 of Rust, an experimental language, came out today.
kibwen 15y ago
Its singular goal is to be an awesome language for writing next-generation browser engines. If it just so happens to also be a really, really exciting systems programming language, that's just a plus. The browser engine in question is called Servo, and initial discussions of its design have only just recently begun. See more here: http://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2012/03/28/servo-design/ http://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2012/03/28/serv...
- sciurus 15y ago
  That link is worth its own HN submission.
- neilc 15y ago
  Its singular goal is to be an awesome language for writing next-generation browser engines. Well, per the FAQ: (https://github.com/mozilla/rust/wiki/Doc-project-FAQ https://github.com/mozilla/rust/wiki/Doc-project-FAQ) What is this project's goal, in one sentence? To design and implement a safe, concurrent, practical, static systems language.
  - jk4930 15y ago
    Then they should use Ada. If it's good enough for high integrity applications in space, transportation, or banking, then it's certainly good enough for browsers. ;)
    - heretohelp 15y ago
      Wasn't good enough for the Ariane V launch.
      - jk4930 15y ago
        Nice trolling. Ada wasn't the problem, a decision to disable a warning for efficiency reasons was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5_Flight_501 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5_Flight_501
    - 15y ago
zobzu 15y ago
It might be interesting to write a sing-like OS with rust (sing#) as well.

naner 15y ago

I believe it is supposed to be for whatever replaces Firefox/Gecko.

fusiongyro 15y ago
Odd, because their FAQ is quite clear about this: > Are you going to use this to suddenly rewrite the browser and change everything? Is the Mozilla Corporation trying to force the community to use a new language? > No. The Mozilla Corporation's involvement is at the labs level: the group concerned with doing experiments. The point is to explore ideas. There is currently no plan to incorporate any Rust-based technology into Firefox. https://github.com/mozilla/rust/wiki/Doc-project-FAQ https://github.com/mozilla/rust/wiki/Doc-project-FAQ
- naner 15y ago
  In a previous post about Rust on HN one of the Mozilla devs claimed that Rust was a result of headaches they've had building Firefox. The language isn't to be used in Firefox, but to (eventually, some day) to be used in whatever supersedes Firefox. They would be starting from scratch. And this is probably very very far in the future. Why else would Mozilla develop a new language if they didn't intend to use it for their products?
  - fusiongyro 15y ago
    I didn't see that post, but every other post I've seen there has been a lot of hand wringing about being forced to use this language or be shut out of Firefox development, which is very clearly not currently even in the long-term plans. They've also been very clear that people should not form indelible opinions about Rust since they expect it to continue evolving at a rapid rate. You're right that it would be idiotic to spend the money and time to develop this if they didn't intend to use it in their products, but they've gone out of their way to make people understand that the Rust they can see today is not going to be shoved down their throats. Whether some eventual successor Rust that may or may not resemble the one we have today is used for some kind of rewrite is probably a foregone conclusion, but they clearly don't want us deciding whether to support or object based on what exists today. I sound like I'm making a big deal out of a minor distinction, but I don't like seeing what I saw on Slashdot, which was essentially, A) Rust devs announce Rust 0.1, B) someone submits story to Slashdot saying Mozilla is forcing everyone to abandon C++ and switch to Rust in the near future, C) everyone on Slashdot complains that Rust isn't going to perform and ought to have language features X, Y, Z. This cycle misinformation/non-information is going to persist as long as we emphasize the foregone conclusion that this might be used in some kind of far-distant rewrite ahead of the actual news, which is just that 0.2 of Rust, an experimental language, came out today.

kibwen 15y ago

Its singular goal is to be an awesome language for writing next-generation browser engines. If it just so happens to also be a really, really exciting systems programming language, that's just a plus. The browser engine in question is called Servo, and initial discussions of its design have only just recently begun. See more here: http://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2012/03/28/servo-design/ http://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2012/03/28/serv...

sciurus 15y ago
That link is worth its own HN submission.
neilc 15y ago
Its singular goal is to be an awesome language for writing next-generation browser engines. Well, per the FAQ: (https://github.com/mozilla/rust/wiki/Doc-project-FAQ https://github.com/mozilla/rust/wiki/Doc-project-FAQ) What is this project's goal, in one sentence? To design and implement a safe, concurrent, practical, static systems language.
- jk4930 15y ago
  Then they should use Ada. If it's good enough for high integrity applications in space, transportation, or banking, then it's certainly good enough for browsers. ;)
  - heretohelp 15y ago
    Wasn't good enough for the Ariane V launch.
    - jk4930 15y ago
      Nice trolling. Ada wasn't the problem, a decision to disable a warning for efficiency reasons was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5_Flight_501 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5_Flight_501
  - 15y ago

zobzu 15y ago

It might be interesting to write a sing-like OS with rust (sing#) as well.