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> This system reduces search engine quality for users and drives up advertiser expenses. Google can get away with it because these manipulations are imperceptib

> This system reduces search engine quality for users and drives up advertiser expenses. Google can get away with it because these manipulations are imperceptible to the user and advertiser I sure have been noticing. At this point finding anything on the web feels like a lost cause. Besides duckduckgo (bing) which is not even that great either. What other option do we have?

dmitrygr 3y ago
Try Yandex and Kagi. First for breadth, second for depth
- eastbound 3y ago
  How is Yandex, whose stock stopped being traded on the day of the Russian war, is still able to browse the entire Western universe? I’m not expressing a moral opinion, just surprised the West lets them do it.
  - Moldoteck 3y ago
    They are based in EU actually))) Afaik the ru part is a 'subsidiary', at least on paper
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    None of the (Western) sanctions include widespread internet blocks/filtering, nor would it really be to the West's benefit to do so.
jacooper 3y ago
Brave search is really good, its my main search engine, and i found it to be better than kagi with better AI integration. They are also integrating their own chat ai which is also privacy respecting.
mjamesaustin 3y ago
Kagi search is a paid search engine that delivers higher quality results with no ads. I'm currently using the free trial (you get 100 searches for free) and enjoying it. https://kagi.com/ https://kagi.com/
- ethanbond 3y ago
  Also been really enjoying Kagi, just converted to the $10/mo unlimited searches plan even before my trial ran out because it's such a breath of fresh air!
  - flashback2199 3y ago
    $10/mo seems really reasonable if its actually that much better than google
  - tomjen3 3y ago
    This also gives you access to some of their AI tools, such as being able to summerize the results of your search using their quick answer feature. This is something Google can't and won't do because they, and the people they depend on, would lose too much ad revenue. This is going to be a future problem as we transition to AI and AI assisted search for information retrieval.
- wombat-man 3y ago
  It's amazing. I searched for a recipe and didn't end up with some bloggers life story.
  - chankstein38 3y ago
    How does a search engine control this? Did it extract it? Does it search some recipe database instead? I'm confused how using Kagi netted this as this seemed to just be a defect from SEO. Is it just that Kagi doesn't promote pages like that so you end up getting the ones that don't have it?
    - 3y ago
cjbgkagh 3y ago
Crowdsourcing on Reddit, gone are the days when you could answer a question with ‘let me google that for you.’ So you’ll see the same questions appear repeatedly in subreddits as previous answers are lost. Personally, I maintain an extensive bookmark hierarchy and a collection of rss feeds. I also buy more books instead of reading blogs. medium.com with their subscription baiting articles are PiHoled as the signal to noise ratio is so low that I find it’s a net negative. I’m also looking forward to locally running a LLM as my own personal search engine.
- seejayseesjays 3y ago
  the SEO folks are starting to pollute reddit threads, too.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  The Reddit redesign hid the sidebar, where many subreddits had a FAQ. Now, only that tiny percentage that uses old.reddit.com will see the FAQ, Wiki and all those other treasure troves of information the community had built up. I suspected – and continue to suspect – that Reddit wants the same questions to appear over and over again, as that seems like the very definition of engagement. I have also seen mods claim that when people post a question, it isn’t necessarily because they couldn’t answer it themselves, but because they’re just seeking interaction with other members of the community. Therefore, old-school net users who refer people to FAQs are cruelly denying them an outlet for socializing.
ceejayoz 3y ago
Browsing with a Pihole really is eye-opening for the "drives up advertiser expenses" bit; I'll Google a thing, click the (very subtle) ad, get a Pihole block, then go down to the actual first result to get to the same spot.
- fireflash38 3y ago
  Right? Google target. Top results: ads for target. Halfway down the page? The search result which goes to the same place. Why would I need or want to click the ad if I know exactly where I'm trying to go?
pierat 3y ago
Yandex works VERY WELL for me for general stuff. Goods, reviews, piracy, etc. All super nice. Things that are location-based do bad, cause they're Russian. They optimize for Russian location stuff.

dmitrygr 3y ago

Try Yandex and Kagi. First for breadth, second for depth

eastbound 3y ago
How is Yandex, whose stock stopped being traded on the day of the Russian war, is still able to browse the entire Western universe? I’m not expressing a moral opinion, just surprised the West lets them do it.
- Moldoteck 3y ago
  They are based in EU actually))) Afaik the ru part is a 'subsidiary', at least on paper
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  None of the (Western) sanctions include widespread internet blocks/filtering, nor would it really be to the West's benefit to do so.

jacooper 3y ago

Brave search is really good, its my main search engine, and i found it to be better than kagi with better AI integration. They are also integrating their own chat ai which is also privacy respecting.

mjamesaustin 3y ago

Kagi search is a paid search engine that delivers higher quality results with no ads. I'm currently using the free trial (you get 100 searches for free) and enjoying it. https://kagi.com/ https://kagi.com/

ethanbond 3y ago
Also been really enjoying Kagi, just converted to the $10/mo unlimited searches plan even before my trial ran out because it's such a breath of fresh air!
- flashback2199 3y ago
  $10/mo seems really reasonable if its actually that much better than google
- tomjen3 3y ago
  This also gives you access to some of their AI tools, such as being able to summerize the results of your search using their quick answer feature. This is something Google can't and won't do because they, and the people they depend on, would lose too much ad revenue. This is going to be a future problem as we transition to AI and AI assisted search for information retrieval.
wombat-man 3y ago
It's amazing. I searched for a recipe and didn't end up with some bloggers life story.
- chankstein38 3y ago
  How does a search engine control this? Did it extract it? Does it search some recipe database instead? I'm confused how using Kagi netted this as this seemed to just be a defect from SEO. Is it just that Kagi doesn't promote pages like that so you end up getting the ones that don't have it?
  - 3y ago

cjbgkagh 3y ago

Crowdsourcing on Reddit, gone are the days when you could answer a question with ‘let me google that for you.’ So you’ll see the same questions appear repeatedly in subreddits as previous answers are lost. Personally, I maintain an extensive bookmark hierarchy and a collection of rss feeds. I also buy more books instead of reading blogs. medium.com with their subscription baiting articles are PiHoled as the signal to noise ratio is so low that I find it’s a net negative. I’m also looking forward to locally running a LLM as my own personal search engine.

seejayseesjays 3y ago
the SEO folks are starting to pollute reddit threads, too.
OfSanguineFire 3y ago
The Reddit redesign hid the sidebar, where many subreddits had a FAQ. Now, only that tiny percentage that uses old.reddit.com will see the FAQ, Wiki and all those other treasure troves of information the community had built up. I suspected – and continue to suspect – that Reddit wants the same questions to appear over and over again, as that seems like the very definition of engagement. I have also seen mods claim that when people post a question, it isn’t necessarily because they couldn’t answer it themselves, but because they’re just seeking interaction with other members of the community. Therefore, old-school net users who refer people to FAQs are cruelly denying them an outlet for socializing.

ceejayoz 3y ago

Browsing with a Pihole really is eye-opening for the "drives up advertiser expenses" bit; I'll Google a thing, click the (very subtle) ad, get a Pihole block, then go down to the actual first result to get to the same spot.

fireflash38 3y ago
Right? Google target. Top results: ads for target. Halfway down the page? The search result which goes to the same place. Why would I need or want to click the ad if I know exactly where I'm trying to go?

pierat 3y ago

Yandex works VERY WELL for me for general stuff. Goods, reviews, piracy, etc. All super nice. Things that are location-based do bad, cause they're Russian. They optimize for Russian location stuff.