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> Immigration exists because market demand for workforce exists The massive wave of migration the US is seeing from (say) Venezuela is due to market demand in

> Immigration exists because market demand for workforce exists The massive wave of migration the US is seeing from (say) Venezuela is due to market demand in the US? Are you sure there isn't a bigger factor driving this?

liotier 3y ago
Arbitrage, it is not just for hedge funds. And by now, everyone south of the Mediterranean, or south of the Rio Grande, knows that North America and the EU are not the land of milk and honey. They know what to expect, the price to pay to build a better life. Half of my friends here are sub-saharan Africans, most of whom came illegally, a bunch of which came on the dreaded pneumatic boats through Libya, Morocco and Turkey. One thing is certain: they know an opportunity when they see it and they'll hang on to it. They left their friends, their family, their weather and their food behind - they work to make the adventure worth that. Most fun is that, in practice and not in theory, the French government recognizes that: come illegally, work hard illegally, prove that you don't depend on the state for survival and, in practice, you'll have residency within about five years. It is unwritten and cannot be expressed openly for fear of a xenophobic backlash, but that is administrative reality in France. I could wax lyrical about "land of opportunity" but yes, it is about working to achieve potential, in conditions they don't find on their home market.
- dataflow 3y ago
  You're conflating "perceived quality of life" with "actual demand in the job market". That's the distinction I was trying to make. I don't get the impression the migrants necessarily know (or have much opportunity to care if so) anything about the job markets at their destinations. They often don't even know where they'll finally end up, let alone what kinds of jobs they'll end up having to take -- or, as many discover, be left unable to take and have to end up on the streets. They just know where they don't want to be (in an impoverished country, in the middle of immediate threats to their lives, etc.), and they know they won't have the same problems they had back home irrespective of whether/how they earn an income, so they solve that part and worry about the rest later.
  - liotier 3y ago
    Orderlies, kitchen help, cleaners, gardeners, construction laborers, nannies... Those hard jobs here are just not staffed without migrant labor. The scarcity is such that the government avert their eyes from all the illegal work: those industries would dysfunction otherwise. Immigration policy does not follow economic logic but the political requirement to cater to xenophobia. I've traveled in 25 African countries. Everyone and his dog has an Android in his pocket with varying amounts of data access. Yes, some in small towns still entertain illusions, but they are not the ones who travel most. Those are the ones with sufficient education, family connections, friends, motivation and money to make an informed bet and quickly integrate. The goat herder in rural Mali has no idea about Paris but the urban student in Dakar most definitely knows. And that is the surprising part: desire to migrate follows a bell curve: as people becomes richer and better educated, desire to migrate grows, until sufficient development has been obtained and then, witness Mexico, desire to migrate declines.

liotier 3y ago

Arbitrage, it is not just for hedge funds. And by now, everyone south of the Mediterranean, or south of the Rio Grande, knows that North America and the EU are not the land of milk and honey. They know what to expect, the price to pay to build a better life. Half of my friends here are sub-saharan Africans, most of whom came illegally, a bunch of which came on the dreaded pneumatic boats through Libya, Morocco and Turkey. One thing is certain: they know an opportunity when they see it and they'll hang on to it. They left their friends, their family, their weather and their food behind - they work to make the adventure worth that. Most fun is that, in practice and not in theory, the French government recognizes that: come illegally, work hard illegally, prove that you don't depend on the state for survival and, in practice, you'll have residency within about five years. It is unwritten and cannot be expressed openly for fear of a xenophobic backlash, but that is administrative reality in France. I could wax lyrical about "land of opportunity" but yes, it is about working to achieve potential, in conditions they don't find on their home market.

dataflow 3y ago
You're conflating "perceived quality of life" with "actual demand in the job market". That's the distinction I was trying to make. I don't get the impression the migrants necessarily know (or have much opportunity to care if so) anything about the job markets at their destinations. They often don't even know where they'll finally end up, let alone what kinds of jobs they'll end up having to take -- or, as many discover, be left unable to take and have to end up on the streets. They just know where they don't want to be (in an impoverished country, in the middle of immediate threats to their lives, etc.), and they know they won't have the same problems they had back home irrespective of whether/how they earn an income, so they solve that part and worry about the rest later.
- liotier 3y ago
  Orderlies, kitchen help, cleaners, gardeners, construction laborers, nannies... Those hard jobs here are just not staffed without migrant labor. The scarcity is such that the government avert their eyes from all the illegal work: those industries would dysfunction otherwise. Immigration policy does not follow economic logic but the political requirement to cater to xenophobia. I've traveled in 25 African countries. Everyone and his dog has an Android in his pocket with varying amounts of data access. Yes, some in small towns still entertain illusions, but they are not the ones who travel most. Those are the ones with sufficient education, family connections, friends, motivation and money to make an informed bet and quickly integrate. The goat herder in rural Mali has no idea about Paris but the urban student in Dakar most definitely knows. And that is the surprising part: desire to migrate follows a bell curve: as people becomes richer and better educated, desire to migrate grows, until sufficient development has been obtained and then, witness Mexico, desire to migrate declines.