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I was in the second high school class to get Louisiana's TOPS program, which at the time gave four years' full-ride tuition plus fees to any public state univer

I was in the second high school class to get Louisiana's TOPS program, which at the time gave four years' full-ride tuition plus fees to any public state university with a nominal ACT score and generous GPA requirements (18 ACT and 2.5 GPA IIRC). Wouldn't be here today without it. My parents couldn't afford anything but the closest and shittiest university, with no compsci program (they only had a business computing program, which taught only COBOL, in 1999). Instead I went to UL Lafayette, which had an actual program, got a room/board merit scholarship, worked through the summers, and graduated debt-free with two degrees. It still didn't accomplish the state's objective of keeping college grads in state — the in-state company I lined up my senior year moved after the governor line-item vetoed a tax incentive, and I wound up in the northeast. But if not for that my career would've probably started working on legacy systems in Arkansas instead of startups in New England.

AlbertCory 3y ago
well, but UL Lafayette was where Bill Evans went. So it's got that going for it.
deleted 3y ago
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jonhohle 3y ago
> My parents couldn't afford anything… Not saying its the right way, but grew up without a lot of financial resources, no money specifically to pay for college, and I went to a private 4 year engineering program starting in 1999 by taking out boat-loads of loans. Going into school I had nothing and needed 100% of my tuition covered by loans, grants, or scholarships. I was reasonably confident that having an engineering degree would allow me to pay back the loans (it did, but it didn't go as smoothly for all of my classmates). Based on my experience, I don't really understand the idea of not being able to afford college (at least for degrees which will put you in reasonably paying positions). Am I an outlier? I doubt it. I didn't go to a particularly well known school, but was able to figure out employment and self-sufficiency. Now I have the pride of finishing a relatively difficult program and paying for it through my own labor. Medical professionals, engineers, and the like have so many opportunities that it's not clear why we should subsidize their education. Educators, on the other hand, have to pay the same price for a degree, have to have continuing education, and then get paid crappy wages. While I'd rather reward them on the back end with better benefits, if there is a program worth subsidizing, it's probably educators.
- biomcgary 3y ago
  My college experience was similar and around the same time (but I tacked on a biology PhD and post-doc, which delayed earning considerably). My impression is that the cost of higher education has increased considerably over the past two decades relative to general inflation and expected income. Increased expense reduces lifetime ROI of education considerably and delays many milestones (e.g. purchase of first home).
  - jonhohle 3y ago
    The same things were being said in the 90s: college is too expensive, only wealthy families can afford it or you'll need to get a full ride scholarship (that's what I was guilted with during HS). You're right though, about increased tuition, and it's easy loans that cannot be discharged that are one of the major culprits, but living on campus at a public university costs as much as my private tuition plus room/board did 20 years ago. Inflation adjusted, it's 55% of what I paid and starting engineering salaries are 250% higher than when I graduated (it makes me a little sick to see what college hires make ;-) ). This isn't true for maybe 90% of the degrees a university offers. I would never suggest anyone take out a loan for a degree that wouldn't pay for itself with low risk. This includes degrees that are undervalued (teaching, for example).
- kdmccormick 3y ago
  I am close to people who have experiences similar to your (as recently as 2018). It's true that they are making it work, but it'll be another ten years before their debt is paid off. Furthermore, they all graduated on time, they are all in well-paid engineering disciplines, and they are all relatively free of other situations that cause large financial burden (heath crises, disasters, family drug issues, etc). For any of them, I'm not sure it'd be going smoothy if any of things had gone differently. Put another way: when everything goes right, you can just barely pay for private college yourself. As soon as anything goes awry, all bets are off.
  - pohuing 3y ago
    You could means test repayment. That's how it's done here in Germany, only once I earn a good deal I'll have to pay back a small percentage each month. If I never get a steady income I just won't have to repay it if I understand it correctly.

AlbertCory 3y ago

well, but UL Lafayette was where Bill Evans went. So it's got that going for it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jonhohle 3y ago

> My parents couldn't afford anything… Not saying its the right way, but grew up without a lot of financial resources, no money specifically to pay for college, and I went to a private 4 year engineering program starting in 1999 by taking out boat-loads of loans. Going into school I had nothing and needed 100% of my tuition covered by loans, grants, or scholarships. I was reasonably confident that having an engineering degree would allow me to pay back the loans (it did, but it didn't go as smoothly for all of my classmates). Based on my experience, I don't really understand the idea of not being able to afford college (at least for degrees which will put you in reasonably paying positions). Am I an outlier? I doubt it. I didn't go to a particularly well known school, but was able to figure out employment and self-sufficiency. Now I have the pride of finishing a relatively difficult program and paying for it through my own labor. Medical professionals, engineers, and the like have so many opportunities that it's not clear why we should subsidize their education. Educators, on the other hand, have to pay the same price for a degree, have to have continuing education, and then get paid crappy wages. While I'd rather reward them on the back end with better benefits, if there is a program worth subsidizing, it's probably educators.

biomcgary 3y ago
My college experience was similar and around the same time (but I tacked on a biology PhD and post-doc, which delayed earning considerably). My impression is that the cost of higher education has increased considerably over the past two decades relative to general inflation and expected income. Increased expense reduces lifetime ROI of education considerably and delays many milestones (e.g. purchase of first home).
- jonhohle 3y ago
  The same things were being said in the 90s: college is too expensive, only wealthy families can afford it or you'll need to get a full ride scholarship (that's what I was guilted with during HS). You're right though, about increased tuition, and it's easy loans that cannot be discharged that are one of the major culprits, but living on campus at a public university costs as much as my private tuition plus room/board did 20 years ago. Inflation adjusted, it's 55% of what I paid and starting engineering salaries are 250% higher than when I graduated (it makes me a little sick to see what college hires make ;-) ). This isn't true for maybe 90% of the degrees a university offers. I would never suggest anyone take out a loan for a degree that wouldn't pay for itself with low risk. This includes degrees that are undervalued (teaching, for example).
kdmccormick 3y ago
I am close to people who have experiences similar to your (as recently as 2018). It's true that they are making it work, but it'll be another ten years before their debt is paid off. Furthermore, they all graduated on time, they are all in well-paid engineering disciplines, and they are all relatively free of other situations that cause large financial burden (heath crises, disasters, family drug issues, etc). For any of them, I'm not sure it'd be going smoothy if any of things had gone differently. Put another way: when everything goes right, you can just barely pay for private college yourself. As soon as anything goes awry, all bets are off.
- pohuing 3y ago
  You could means test repayment. That's how it's done here in Germany, only once I earn a good deal I'll have to pay back a small percentage each month. If I never get a steady income I just won't have to repay it if I understand it correctly.