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The US spends more on education than the military, it is difficult to defend the idea that spending on education has not been prioritized. Per the OECD, US spen

The US spends more on education than the military, it is difficult to defend the idea that spending on education has not been prioritized. Per the OECD, US spending per student is among the highest in the world by a large margin, which raises the question of value for the money already being spent -- any deficiencies compared to other countries aren't for lack of money. The US also spends a lot of money on the military. Whether prudent or not, at least that spending produces an objectively superior product. We spend even more on education with ambiguous results.

latchkey 3y ago
> The US spends more on education than the military "The US spent $877 billion on military in 2022, a new report says — more than 10 times federal education spending" https://www.businessinsider.com/us-defense-military-budget-compared-federal-education-spending-2023-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/us-defense-military-budget-c...
- mwbajor 3y ago
  Can't see the article but I assume they are comparing it to Dept. of education spending as most do. The vast majority of educational spending is at the state and local level which people frequently leave out when making this comparison.
- toast0 3y ago
  You'd need to consider the state military and education budgets as well.
  - latchkey 3y ago
    You think that won't improve the argument?
    - toast0 3y ago
      If the argument is the US spends more on military than education, and we only look at federal numbers, it's an incomplete and misleading accounting. States spend a lot on education, and not a lot on state military. This article claims California's 2022-2023 budget includes $128 Billion for education [1]. For 2018-2019, the California Military Department budget was $233 Million [2]. If other states are similar (and I think they are), state education budgets are significant relative to federal budget and make a difference in comparing the balance of spending; state military budgets are relatively small, but should be included for a more complete accounting regardless. [1] https://edsource.org/2022/californias-new-budget-includes-historic-funding-for-education/674998 https://edsource.org/2022/californias-new-budget-includes-hi... [2] https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3743 https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3743
      - latchkey 3y ago
        You're saying that we need to look at both federal and state levels of funding for both education and military. Sure, if that's the only way you can consider things. If you add it all up across the entire US, with your terms, which one gets more funding today, Education or Military? Regardless, this isn't a d/ck size competition. What I'm saying is that we prioritize too much on military and too little on education. The numbers are irrelevant unless you're trying to prove we don't prioritize that way. I could easily argue against that by saying we have the best military on the planet and the dumbest kids [0]. [0] https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/research/literacy-statistics https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/research/literacy-statisti...
        toast0 3y ago
        I don't need to bring better numbers to say your numbers aren't meaningful. I don't have time to find all 53? budgets for the states, territorities, and such, and probably neither do you, that's fine. If your point wasn't to compare sizes, why did you bring your numbers?
        latchkey 3y ago
        > If your point wasn't to compare sizes, why did you bring your numbers? I'm not the one who cares about state funding, you are. It is easy enough to say that at a federal level, we prioritize funding the military over education.
ulrashida 3y ago
Could you please support this statement: "The US spends more on education than the military"? This view (https://www.usaspending.gov/explorer/agency https://www.usaspending.gov/explorer/agency) suggests Defense spending is $1.1 trillion in 2023 while Department of Education funding is $208 billion.
- EA-3167 3y ago
  The entire US military budget is federal, but most of the education budget comes from the states. You're comparing apples to oranges.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > The entire US military budget is federal, False. For instance, California’s military spending in FY 2023-2024 is budgeted at $293.6 million (putting it between Paraguay and Niger in military spending), of which the majority is state funds, not federal support (by state funds alone, its somewhere around Monogolia’s military spending.) It is true that the vast majority of the US’s defense spending is federal, though. [0] https://ebudget.ca.gov/2023-24/pdf/Enacted/GovernorsBudget/8000/8940.pdf https://ebudget.ca.gov/2023-24/pdf/Enacted/GovernorsBudget/8...
    - danielmarkbruce 3y ago
      When rounding in any reasonable way, it's true.
    - EA-3167 3y ago
      So... it isn't ALL federal, it's just 99.99% federal. Gotcha. Meanwhile the US federal education budget is just 10% of the total spending on education in the US. I'm going to say that the former is a rounding error, and the latter is massively significant.
  - ulrashida 3y ago
    Importantly, I'm asking for the original commenter to clarify their position. I'm not comparing any sort of fruit at this point other than pointing out the disparity at the federal level. Do you have figures comparing "all-in" funding for both defense and education at the state and federal levels? From casual inspection of the points posted so far, it seems like a more correct statement is: "The United States, nationally, funds education at about the same level as defense." If correct, I'd argue the initial poster's comment is inaccurate.
r053bud 3y ago
> The US also spends a lot of money on the military. Whether prudent or not, at least that spending produces an objectively superior product. We spend even more on education with ambiguous results. Nice. Didn’t think I’d see “bombs over books” argued so early in the morning.
Hermitian909 3y ago
> US spending per student is among the highest in the world by a large margin It is high, but not exceptionally high[0]. It is then worth remembering that the US overcounts spending on primary and secondary education relative to peer countries because we lack most of the social welfare programs that exist in peer countries and effectively funnel welfare services through the education budget. As an example, if you have a severely emotionally disturbed child the school district might spend ~$100,000 a year to house the student elsewhere[1]. In Norway, this problem would be budgeted under social services, rather than education. Numbers are further inflated by increased cost of living relative to most peer countries[2]. This is effectively a dead-weight cost for which we receive no additional benefit. Since Labor is the biggest cost for schools it greatly impacts cost of education. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/238733/expenditure-on-education-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/238733/expenditure-on-ed... [1] https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4110#:~:text=Special%20Education%20Costs%20Vary%20by%20Student.&text=Whereas%20a%20school%20district%20might,%E2%80%91of%E2%80%91state%20nonpublic%20school https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4110#:~:text=Special%.... [2] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-expensive-countries-to-live-in https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-expe...

latchkey 3y ago

> The US spends more on education than the military "The US spent $877 billion on military in 2022, a new report says — more than 10 times federal education spending" https://www.businessinsider.com/us-defense-military-budget-compared-federal-education-spending-2023-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/us-defense-military-budget-c...

mwbajor 3y ago
Can't see the article but I assume they are comparing it to Dept. of education spending as most do. The vast majority of educational spending is at the state and local level which people frequently leave out when making this comparison.
toast0 3y ago
You'd need to consider the state military and education budgets as well.
- latchkey 3y ago
  You think that won't improve the argument?
  - toast0 3y ago
    If the argument is the US spends more on military than education, and we only look at federal numbers, it's an incomplete and misleading accounting. States spend a lot on education, and not a lot on state military. This article claims California's 2022-2023 budget includes $128 Billion for education [1]. For 2018-2019, the California Military Department budget was $233 Million [2]. If other states are similar (and I think they are), state education budgets are significant relative to federal budget and make a difference in comparing the balance of spending; state military budgets are relatively small, but should be included for a more complete accounting regardless. [1] https://edsource.org/2022/californias-new-budget-includes-historic-funding-for-education/674998 https://edsource.org/2022/californias-new-budget-includes-hi... [2] https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3743 https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3743
    - latchkey 3y ago
      You're saying that we need to look at both federal and state levels of funding for both education and military. Sure, if that's the only way you can consider things. If you add it all up across the entire US, with your terms, which one gets more funding today, Education or Military? Regardless, this isn't a d/ck size competition. What I'm saying is that we prioritize too much on military and too little on education. The numbers are irrelevant unless you're trying to prove we don't prioritize that way. I could easily argue against that by saying we have the best military on the planet and the dumbest kids [0]. [0] https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/research/literacy-statistics https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/research/literacy-statisti...
      - toast0 3y ago
        I don't need to bring better numbers to say your numbers aren't meaningful. I don't have time to find all 53? budgets for the states, territorities, and such, and probably neither do you, that's fine. If your point wasn't to compare sizes, why did you bring your numbers?
        latchkey 3y ago
        > If your point wasn't to compare sizes, why did you bring your numbers? I'm not the one who cares about state funding, you are. It is easy enough to say that at a federal level, we prioritize funding the military over education.

ulrashida 3y ago

Could you please support this statement: "The US spends more on education than the military"? This view (https://www.usaspending.gov/explorer/agency https://www.usaspending.gov/explorer/agency) suggests Defense spending is $1.1 trillion in 2023 while Department of Education funding is $208 billion.

EA-3167 3y ago
The entire US military budget is federal, but most of the education budget comes from the states. You're comparing apples to oranges.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > The entire US military budget is federal, False. For instance, California’s military spending in FY 2023-2024 is budgeted at $293.6 million (putting it between Paraguay and Niger in military spending), of which the majority is state funds, not federal support (by state funds alone, its somewhere around Monogolia’s military spending.) It is true that the vast majority of the US’s defense spending is federal, though. [0] https://ebudget.ca.gov/2023-24/pdf/Enacted/GovernorsBudget/8000/8940.pdf https://ebudget.ca.gov/2023-24/pdf/Enacted/GovernorsBudget/8...
  - danielmarkbruce 3y ago
    When rounding in any reasonable way, it's true.
  - EA-3167 3y ago
    So... it isn't ALL federal, it's just 99.99% federal. Gotcha. Meanwhile the US federal education budget is just 10% of the total spending on education in the US. I'm going to say that the former is a rounding error, and the latter is massively significant.
- ulrashida 3y ago
  Importantly, I'm asking for the original commenter to clarify their position. I'm not comparing any sort of fruit at this point other than pointing out the disparity at the federal level. Do you have figures comparing "all-in" funding for both defense and education at the state and federal levels? From casual inspection of the points posted so far, it seems like a more correct statement is: "The United States, nationally, funds education at about the same level as defense." If correct, I'd argue the initial poster's comment is inaccurate.

r053bud 3y ago

> The US also spends a lot of money on the military. Whether prudent or not, at least that spending produces an objectively superior product. We spend even more on education with ambiguous results. Nice. Didn’t think I’d see “bombs over books” argued so early in the morning.

Hermitian909 3y ago

> US spending per student is among the highest in the world by a large margin It is high, but not exceptionally high[0]. It is then worth remembering that the US overcounts spending on primary and secondary education relative to peer countries because we lack most of the social welfare programs that exist in peer countries and effectively funnel welfare services through the education budget. As an example, if you have a severely emotionally disturbed child the school district might spend ~$100,000 a year to house the student elsewhere[1]. In Norway, this problem would be budgeted under social services, rather than education. Numbers are further inflated by increased cost of living relative to most peer countries[2]. This is effectively a dead-weight cost for which we receive no additional benefit. Since Labor is the biggest cost for schools it greatly impacts cost of education. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/238733/expenditure-on-education-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/238733/expenditure-on-ed... [1] https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4110#:~:text=Special%20Education%20Costs%20Vary%20by%20Student.&text=Whereas%20a%20school%20district%20might,%E2%80%91of%E2%80%91state%20nonpublic%20school https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4110#:~:text=Special%.... [2] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-expensive-countries-to-live-in https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-expe...