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Agreed, and if anything what the author proposes would intensify the competition to get into those elite schools, for it would simultaneously increase the worth

Agreed, and if anything what the author proposes would intensify the competition to get into those elite schools, for it would simultaneously increase the worth of a diploma from an elite school and devalue the diploma from the public college.

hiAndrewQuinn 3y ago
You could always make public colleges free, and also make the exams to get in actually hard. That comes with its own suite of issues, of course.
- coryrc 3y ago
  We've done the opposite for decades. We've lowered the bar every year and the quality of k-12 education has dropped significantly. Perhaps now that Lucy Calkins is fully exposed as a fraud, reading can get better? https://www.timesunion.com/education/article/phonics-f-sound-n-y-challenges-reading-18355554.php https://www.timesunion.com/education/article/phonics-f-sound...
piotrkaminski 3y ago
> devalue the diploma from the public college Huh? How so? If the only change is that you no longer need to pay for college, but otherwise admission standards and education quality remain the same, then why would the value of a diploma change? Unless the diploma was implicitly a signal for wealth, of course...
- Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
  Wages are based on how easy you are to replace. If a job has a high wage because they require a specific college degree, then making the degree easier to get since you don't have to pay for it, then there will be more people with that degree, so the supply of workers is higher, making them easier to replace, so the wages of those workers goes down.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    To whatever extent your concern is backed up by data, that's an argument for making public colleges free rather than an argument against it, IMO. "Today, children of upper middle class families have a path to getting good paying jobs that the poor are largely shut out from. We don't wish for that change by making public universities free, thereby preventing competition for these desirable jobs by the children of the poor."
    - em-bee 3y ago
      exactly this, the quality of education needs to be improved. not every job today needs a college degree (but that may change in the future with manual jobs being automated away) but the access to a degree should not depend on the income of the parents.
    - jstarfish 3y ago
      It only means that if your goal is to intentionally devalue labor. You're advocating we toss escapees from the crab bucket back into the bucket because it's not fair to the rest of the crabs.
      - sokoloff 3y ago
        The alternative can be characterized as trying to keep the lid on the pot to ensure no other crabs escape and charging escaped crabs a fee for their offspring to be able to live outside the pot.
    - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
      Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm definitely in favor of free colleges, even if it means a slight lowering of entry-level jobs that require a degree. It would lower wealth inequality by allowing upward mobility by the poor.
  - WkndTriathlete 3y ago
    > making the degree easier to get You are confusing "easier to afford the degree" with "easier to learn and obtain the degree." The former does not imply the latter in any way, shape, or form.

hiAndrewQuinn 3y ago

You could always make public colleges free, and also make the exams to get in actually hard. That comes with its own suite of issues, of course.

coryrc 3y ago
We've done the opposite for decades. We've lowered the bar every year and the quality of k-12 education has dropped significantly. Perhaps now that Lucy Calkins is fully exposed as a fraud, reading can get better? https://www.timesunion.com/education/article/phonics-f-sound-n-y-challenges-reading-18355554.php https://www.timesunion.com/education/article/phonics-f-sound...

piotrkaminski 3y ago

> devalue the diploma from the public college Huh? How so? If the only change is that you no longer need to pay for college, but otherwise admission standards and education quality remain the same, then why would the value of a diploma change? Unless the diploma was implicitly a signal for wealth, of course...

Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
Wages are based on how easy you are to replace. If a job has a high wage because they require a specific college degree, then making the degree easier to get since you don't have to pay for it, then there will be more people with that degree, so the supply of workers is higher, making them easier to replace, so the wages of those workers goes down.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  To whatever extent your concern is backed up by data, that's an argument for making public colleges free rather than an argument against it, IMO. "Today, children of upper middle class families have a path to getting good paying jobs that the poor are largely shut out from. We don't wish for that change by making public universities free, thereby preventing competition for these desirable jobs by the children of the poor."
  - em-bee 3y ago
    exactly this, the quality of education needs to be improved. not every job today needs a college degree (but that may change in the future with manual jobs being automated away) but the access to a degree should not depend on the income of the parents.
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    It only means that if your goal is to intentionally devalue labor. You're advocating we toss escapees from the crab bucket back into the bucket because it's not fair to the rest of the crabs.
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      The alternative can be characterized as trying to keep the lid on the pot to ensure no other crabs escape and charging escaped crabs a fee for their offspring to be able to live outside the pot.
  - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
    Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm definitely in favor of free colleges, even if it means a slight lowering of entry-level jobs that require a degree. It would lower wealth inequality by allowing upward mobility by the poor.
- WkndTriathlete 3y ago
  > making the degree easier to get You are confusing "easier to afford the degree" with "easier to learn and obtain the degree." The former does not imply the latter in any way, shape, or form.