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> an assembly line Now imagine working on an assembly line on your feet all day versus your office day job. The people on the assembly line would look at you l

> an assembly line Now imagine working on an assembly line on your feet all day versus your office day job. The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. I personally hated going into the office, but the morale effect is real. I think the main thing is people cannot be trusted to honestly tell you if they work better from the office. It's a nicer life working from home but whether you get more work done is debatable. And there is always too much to lose by speaking the truth.

blastro 3y ago
real for you
diogenes4 3y ago
> The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. I'm guessing the most spoiled people in the world wouldn't be working at all. This sort of contempt is a very specific and odd attitude to have.
- grumblingdev 3y ago
  Imagine being an Amazon delivery driver. Monitoring to the extreme. Constant boring shit all day. Running up apartment stairs. Then imagine an office worker... It's a world of difference and puts things in perspective. People take things for granted too easily.
  - Clubber 3y ago
    At the same time, that office worker has to take time out of their free time to get exercise while the Amazon driver gets paid to exercise on the job. There's a lot of health risk with not getting daily exercise.
  - diogenes4 3y ago
    > People take things for granted too easily. If this were a widespread attitude surely the office workers would be paid less than physical laborers (and, frankly, they probably should be). I do a lot of physical work (that's my two primary jobs) and people don't spend their time fuming over people with soft hands—that's kind of a "loser" thing.
DennisP 3y ago
If management can tell which way gets more work done, then they don't have to rely on workers being honest about it. If they can't tell the difference, seems to me they should let people have nicer lives.
- grumblingdev 3y ago
  White collar work is not very measurable.
  - DennisP 3y ago
    Fine. If you don't have evidence either way, might as well go with option two.
PsylentKnight 3y ago
> The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. Ok, working standards and life in general have gotten better for people. Why is that a bad thing? > It's a nicer life working from home Again, why is people having a better life a bad thing?
- grumblingdev 3y ago
  My point is its a minor inconvenience compared to a lot the working environments people operate in.
  - vunderba 3y ago
    You can make that point about literally anything. People in X situation have it worse than people in Y situation, therefore Y situation is actually fine. It's a deflection without any actual merit.
TerrifiedMouse 3y ago
> The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. It's not a matter of being spoiled or not. I'm talking about what is necessary to get the job done and the elimination of redundant rules that serve no purpose.
- grumblingdev 3y ago
  "get the job done" is usually poorly defined.
  - somsak2 3y ago
    Then we should demand better definitions rather than forcing a change on which we have no data is actually better.
greedo 3y ago
The morale effect might be real for you, but for a large group of workers, their morale has improved since WFH. On my team of 24, only one chooses to work in the office...
- Ferret7446 3y ago
  Individual morale and team morale are separate. I have no doubt that their individual lives improved a lot (e.g., being able to freely do personal chores), at the expense of team morale (feeling like a part of a team at work).
  - Clubber 3y ago
    So let me get this straight. To improve team morale, individual morale has to suffer, is that what you are saying?
analog31 3y ago
>>>> The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. That's been part of workplace culture even when most people were in-office. The "office" and "factory" people had noticeably different working conditions. Moreover, the remote workers were largely invisible -- if we dealt with them at all, it was through their boss, or some kind of ticketing system.
Clubber 3y ago
>The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. Sure, then have then design a database schema with a half ass business spec, and the'll realize why.
npsimons 3y ago
> The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. And farmers working hard manual labor from before sunrise to sundown, in heat and UV exposure would look upon factory workers as spoilt. So what? Are you against progress? You aren't one of those "I had it hard, so these damn kids should too!" boomers are you?
somsak2 3y ago
> on your feet all day versus your office day job I have a standing desk, so I am on my feet all day.

blastro 3y ago

real for you

diogenes4 3y ago

> The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. I'm guessing the most spoiled people in the world wouldn't be working at all. This sort of contempt is a very specific and odd attitude to have.

grumblingdev 3y ago
Imagine being an Amazon delivery driver. Monitoring to the extreme. Constant boring shit all day. Running up apartment stairs. Then imagine an office worker... It's a world of difference and puts things in perspective. People take things for granted too easily.
- Clubber 3y ago
  At the same time, that office worker has to take time out of their free time to get exercise while the Amazon driver gets paid to exercise on the job. There's a lot of health risk with not getting daily exercise.
- diogenes4 3y ago
  > People take things for granted too easily. If this were a widespread attitude surely the office workers would be paid less than physical laborers (and, frankly, they probably should be). I do a lot of physical work (that's my two primary jobs) and people don't spend their time fuming over people with soft hands—that's kind of a "loser" thing.

DennisP 3y ago

If management can tell which way gets more work done, then they don't have to rely on workers being honest about it. If they can't tell the difference, seems to me they should let people have nicer lives.

grumblingdev 3y ago
White collar work is not very measurable.
- DennisP 3y ago
  Fine. If you don't have evidence either way, might as well go with option two.

PsylentKnight 3y ago

> The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. Ok, working standards and life in general have gotten better for people. Why is that a bad thing? > It's a nicer life working from home Again, why is people having a better life a bad thing?

grumblingdev 3y ago
My point is its a minor inconvenience compared to a lot the working environments people operate in.
- vunderba 3y ago
  You can make that point about literally anything. People in X situation have it worse than people in Y situation, therefore Y situation is actually fine. It's a deflection without any actual merit.

TerrifiedMouse 3y ago

> The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. It's not a matter of being spoiled or not. I'm talking about what is necessary to get the job done and the elimination of redundant rules that serve no purpose.

grumblingdev 3y ago
"get the job done" is usually poorly defined.
- somsak2 3y ago
  Then we should demand better definitions rather than forcing a change on which we have no data is actually better.

greedo 3y ago

The morale effect might be real for you, but for a large group of workers, their morale has improved since WFH. On my team of 24, only one chooses to work in the office...

Ferret7446 3y ago
Individual morale and team morale are separate. I have no doubt that their individual lives improved a lot (e.g., being able to freely do personal chores), at the expense of team morale (feeling like a part of a team at work).
- Clubber 3y ago
  So let me get this straight. To improve team morale, individual morale has to suffer, is that what you are saying?

analog31 3y ago

>>>> The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. That's been part of workplace culture even when most people were in-office. The "office" and "factory" people had noticeably different working conditions. Moreover, the remote workers were largely invisible -- if we dealt with them at all, it was through their boss, or some kind of ticketing system.

Clubber 3y ago

>The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. Sure, then have then design a database schema with a half ass business spec, and the'll realize why.

npsimons 3y ago

> The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. And farmers working hard manual labor from before sunrise to sundown, in heat and UV exposure would look upon factory workers as spoilt. So what? Are you against progress? You aren't one of those "I had it hard, so these damn kids should too!" boomers are you?

somsak2 3y ago

> on your feet all day versus your office day job I have a standing desk, so I am on my feet all day.