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I don't understand why there can't be compromise on this? If you want to go to the office, go. If you want to work from home, then work from home. Why is it th

I don't understand why there can't be compromise on this? If you want to go to the office, go. If you want to work from home, then work from home. Why is it that remote workers never insist on everyone working from home, but RTO people want every single person to RTO? Just leave it up to the individual worker.

Ericson2314 3y ago
The point of being in the office is the other people being in the office. Unfortunate, but also true. I totally by this might be a CEO power trip, but that doesn't also mean its an individualist ("I'm a star IC nothing else matter") brain rot. Star ICs do not a functioning org make.
SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
You don’t think there can be compromise until both sides admit their faults. Count the times you see someone arguing WFH while admitting any degree of abuse like we all know it is. To hear people here tell it, they would never do the things we all know happen.
- asynchronous 3y ago
  Such as? If RTO is happening I want every company to take back every “great job staying productive through the pandemic” email they sent over the last several years. Either we met the standard for productivity or we didn’t, it can’t be both.
boring_twenties 3y ago
RTO people don't want to be in an empty office by themselves.
fullshark 3y ago
In office people don't care about just themselves being in an office, they want everyone in an office. Being in an office to take video conferences is pointless, they want that collective environment that they thrived in pre-pandemic.
- paulcole 3y ago
  > they want that collective environment that they thrived in pre-pandemic Is there an issue with this? The pro-remote people want the environment they thrive in and the pro-office people want the environment they thrive in.
  - fullshark 3y ago
    The issue is they require their co-workers to do something they don't want to do. It's not a purely individualized desire.
    - paulcole 3y ago
      Agreed. As long as we’re also clear that this applies to anyone who wants to work at a fully remote company. And as long as we’re clear that there’s nothing wrong with this.
      - fullshark 3y ago
        I don't follow, fully remote employees don't care how their coworkers are working by and large so your point is lost on me.
        paulcole 3y ago
        The issue you’re missing is that for many people who prefer office work is that they prefer in-office work with other people in that office, not being in an office while a bunch of people are remote. The remote workers’ cry of “We can work at home and you can work in the office” or “I don’t care where you work” is forcing the in-office coworker to do something they don’t want to do — work in an office with people who aren’t there. Getting the exact work environment you desire isn’t a guarantee at work. And again, this is absolutely fine. It’s fine to love remote work and it’s fine to hate it. It’s fine for a business to make everybody come into the office, it’s fine for a business to make everyone work at home, and it’s fine to go hybrid or whatever.
cmrdporcupine 3y ago
The reason there's little compromise is that there's only so many profitable workplaces to go around. So how they get managed is a resource decision allocation problem like most other things. I think for people in the Bay Area maybe this might not be the case. But other places in the world don't have the same kind of plethora of options. For me, it's work remote, or take a massive paycut and work on far less interesting and satisfying work. But I also don't like working remote. So, yeah...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
confidantlake 3y ago
They are authoritarians.
Pr0ject217 3y ago
If everyone is honest/genuine it could probably work. If the in-person team doesn't like working remotely because they prefer to communicate and make decisions in-person, those conversations/decisions will have to be propagated to the remote team, for the company to function. My gut feeling is that at some point, an important decision will be made in-person and not propagated, leading to confusion, lack of coordination, etc. Then, politics will ensue because the in-person team might feel like they're making concessions to the remote-team, and that the remote-team is always lagging behind, that the bulk of the decision-making responsibility are on the in-person team's shoulders, etc. I'm 100% speculating, but I can see it happen.
mavelikara 3y ago
> Why is it that remote workers never insist on everyone working from home They do insist that all meetings have some video conferencing on. Also, to avoid side conversations, many of them ask that everyone in the meeting - even those sitting the same office - sign into the video conferencing software.

Ericson2314 3y ago

The point of being in the office is the other people being in the office. Unfortunate, but also true. I totally by this might be a CEO power trip, but that doesn't also mean its an individualist ("I'm a star IC nothing else matter") brain rot. Star ICs do not a functioning org make.

SV_BubbleTime 3y ago

You don’t think there can be compromise until both sides admit their faults. Count the times you see someone arguing WFH while admitting any degree of abuse like we all know it is. To hear people here tell it, they would never do the things we all know happen.

asynchronous 3y ago
Such as? If RTO is happening I want every company to take back every “great job staying productive through the pandemic” email they sent over the last several years. Either we met the standard for productivity or we didn’t, it can’t be both.

boring_twenties 3y ago

RTO people don't want to be in an empty office by themselves.

fullshark 3y ago

In office people don't care about just themselves being in an office, they want everyone in an office. Being in an office to take video conferences is pointless, they want that collective environment that they thrived in pre-pandemic.

paulcole 3y ago
> they want that collective environment that they thrived in pre-pandemic Is there an issue with this? The pro-remote people want the environment they thrive in and the pro-office people want the environment they thrive in.
- fullshark 3y ago
  The issue is they require their co-workers to do something they don't want to do. It's not a purely individualized desire.
  - paulcole 3y ago
    Agreed. As long as we’re also clear that this applies to anyone who wants to work at a fully remote company. And as long as we’re clear that there’s nothing wrong with this.
    - fullshark 3y ago
      I don't follow, fully remote employees don't care how their coworkers are working by and large so your point is lost on me.
      - paulcole 3y ago
        The issue you’re missing is that for many people who prefer office work is that they prefer in-office work with other people in that office, not being in an office while a bunch of people are remote. The remote workers’ cry of “We can work at home and you can work in the office” or “I don’t care where you work” is forcing the in-office coworker to do something they don’t want to do — work in an office with people who aren’t there. Getting the exact work environment you desire isn’t a guarantee at work. And again, this is absolutely fine. It’s fine to love remote work and it’s fine to hate it. It’s fine for a business to make everybody come into the office, it’s fine for a business to make everyone work at home, and it’s fine to go hybrid or whatever.

cmrdporcupine 3y ago

The reason there's little compromise is that there's only so many profitable workplaces to go around. So how they get managed is a resource decision allocation problem like most other things. I think for people in the Bay Area maybe this might not be the case. But other places in the world don't have the same kind of plethora of options. For me, it's work remote, or take a massive paycut and work on far less interesting and satisfying work. But I also don't like working remote. So, yeah...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

confidantlake 3y ago

They are authoritarians.

Pr0ject217 3y ago

If everyone is honest/genuine it could probably work. If the in-person team doesn't like working remotely because they prefer to communicate and make decisions in-person, those conversations/decisions will have to be propagated to the remote team, for the company to function. My gut feeling is that at some point, an important decision will be made in-person and not propagated, leading to confusion, lack of coordination, etc. Then, politics will ensue because the in-person team might feel like they're making concessions to the remote-team, and that the remote-team is always lagging behind, that the bulk of the decision-making responsibility are on the in-person team's shoulders, etc. I'm 100% speculating, but I can see it happen.

mavelikara 3y ago

> Why is it that remote workers never insist on everyone working from home They do insist that all meetings have some video conferencing on. Also, to avoid side conversations, many of them ask that everyone in the meeting - even those sitting the same office - sign into the video conferencing software.