4 ms·

How was Sweden more restrictive than it’s neighbours?

by brutusborn 3y ago

heyoni 3y ago
Yea I’m dying to hear this too because that’s what I’ve seen: it was a free for all.
- RandomLensman 3y ago
  At the very least not practically, a lot of companies went WFH, for example. There might have been less official forcing but behavior for sure changed.
- stringsandchars 3y ago
  > Yea I’m dying to hear this too because that’s what I’ve seen: it was a free for all. If you go to: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-stringency-index https://ourworldindata.org/covid-stringency-index take away the default countries, and instead add Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden. Then make sure you also click "Align axis scales" you will see that Sweden only had fewer restrictions than its neighbors during a very short period at the beginning of the pandemic (during the first wave). After that, Sweden had both more stringent restrictions than all its neighbors, and had those restrictions in place for a longer period of time. The narrative - the historical revisionism, the myth that a very large number of people want to promote, and which has even become some sort of amnesiac 'reality' for many Swedes - should not be mistaken for what really happened.
  - heyoni 3y ago
    Thanks for the source! And I'm not saying I'm 100% right but I do remember reading articles from the economist and other solid publications about them not having any restrictions. I won't be able to find the article but I will look...and also look at this one. /edit I actually found this in my bookmarks fyi: https://archive.ph/7y7gF https://archive.ph/7y7gF
    - stringsandchars 3y ago
      > edit I actually found this in my bookmarks fyi: https://archive.ph/7y7gF https://archive.ph/7y7gF But Tegnell is the architect and main proponent of the historical revisionism that I'm talking about. He is the man at the center of the controversial policies. Even while they were being enacted, Sweden was fed a narrative of exceptionalism by Tegnell and the mainstream media, who never mentioned the comparative liberality of the other Nordic states' policies, and maintained the fiction that we were still following the most liberal strategy (even to this day). Tegnell is massively popular in Sweden. In fact, as deaths accumulated and it looked more and more like he was following a disastrous path, his popularity increased exponentially. Criticism or even mildly questioning Tegnell was (and for a large part, still is) totally off-limits: there is absolutely no way I'd mention my doubts about him or his policies to my fellow Swedish colleagues or friends. edit: Incidentally, for those who can read Swedish (or use Google Translate), this series of contemporary articles is a really great overview of the events in Sweden seen from a skeptical perspective: https://floderochtekoppar.blogspot.com/2021/09/sveriges-hantering-av-coronapandemin.html https://floderochtekoppar.blogspot.com/2021/09/sveriges-hant...
      - cycomanic 3y ago
        As a foreigner living in Sweden during covid was just bizarre. I certainly appreciated that school were kept open and that the country never went into complete lock down. However the making fun of masks at the highest level, because there hadn't been any definite studies that showed they work (and after the turnaround later they wondered why so few people put them on), or the policies for medical personal who were not allowed protective gear (because it scares patients) even for ones working directly in the covid wards. And yes there is definitely a weird "Swedish exceptionalism", which interestingly Swedes from all sort of political persuasion exhibit.
        bjourne 3y ago
        Well, even now, many years later there is still no evidence that mask mandates reduced covid infections. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/21/opinion/do-mask-mandates-work.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/21/opinion/do-mask-mandates-...
  - nvm0n2 3y ago
    The Oxford Stringency Index doesn't correlate in any way with COVID deaths so it's unclear what point you're getting at here. None of the NPIs had any effect on COVID.

How was Sweden more restrictive than it’s neighbours?

heyoni 3y ago

Yea I’m dying to hear this too because that’s what I’ve seen: it was a free for all.

RandomLensman 3y ago
At the very least not practically, a lot of companies went WFH, for example. There might have been less official forcing but behavior for sure changed.
stringsandchars 3y ago
> Yea I’m dying to hear this too because that’s what I’ve seen: it was a free for all. If you go to: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-stringency-index https://ourworldindata.org/covid-stringency-index take away the default countries, and instead add Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden. Then make sure you also click "Align axis scales" you will see that Sweden only had fewer restrictions than its neighbors during a very short period at the beginning of the pandemic (during the first wave). After that, Sweden had both more stringent restrictions than all its neighbors, and had those restrictions in place for a longer period of time. The narrative - the historical revisionism, the myth that a very large number of people want to promote, and which has even become some sort of amnesiac 'reality' for many Swedes - should not be mistaken for what really happened.
- heyoni 3y ago
  Thanks for the source! And I'm not saying I'm 100% right but I do remember reading articles from the economist and other solid publications about them not having any restrictions. I won't be able to find the article but I will look...and also look at this one. /edit I actually found this in my bookmarks fyi: https://archive.ph/7y7gF https://archive.ph/7y7gF
  - stringsandchars 3y ago
    > edit I actually found this in my bookmarks fyi: https://archive.ph/7y7gF https://archive.ph/7y7gF But Tegnell is the architect and main proponent of the historical revisionism that I'm talking about. He is the man at the center of the controversial policies. Even while they were being enacted, Sweden was fed a narrative of exceptionalism by Tegnell and the mainstream media, who never mentioned the comparative liberality of the other Nordic states' policies, and maintained the fiction that we were still following the most liberal strategy (even to this day). Tegnell is massively popular in Sweden. In fact, as deaths accumulated and it looked more and more like he was following a disastrous path, his popularity increased exponentially. Criticism or even mildly questioning Tegnell was (and for a large part, still is) totally off-limits: there is absolutely no way I'd mention my doubts about him or his policies to my fellow Swedish colleagues or friends. edit: Incidentally, for those who can read Swedish (or use Google Translate), this series of contemporary articles is a really great overview of the events in Sweden seen from a skeptical perspective: https://floderochtekoppar.blogspot.com/2021/09/sveriges-hantering-av-coronapandemin.html https://floderochtekoppar.blogspot.com/2021/09/sveriges-hant...
    - cycomanic 3y ago
      As a foreigner living in Sweden during covid was just bizarre. I certainly appreciated that school were kept open and that the country never went into complete lock down. However the making fun of masks at the highest level, because there hadn't been any definite studies that showed they work (and after the turnaround later they wondered why so few people put them on), or the policies for medical personal who were not allowed protective gear (because it scares patients) even for ones working directly in the covid wards. And yes there is definitely a weird "Swedish exceptionalism", which interestingly Swedes from all sort of political persuasion exhibit.
      - bjourne 3y ago
        Well, even now, many years later there is still no evidence that mask mandates reduced covid infections. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/21/opinion/do-mask-mandates-work.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/21/opinion/do-mask-mandates-...
- nvm0n2 3y ago
  The Oxford Stringency Index doesn't correlate in any way with COVID deaths so it's unclear what point you're getting at here. None of the NPIs had any effect on COVID.