6 ms·

Very cool! It blows my mind though how the moment that someone offers free stuff, the first comments are people asking for more free stuff. If I wasn't paid t

Very cool! It blows my mind though how the moment that someone offers free stuff, the first comments are people asking for more free stuff. If I wasn't paid to work full time on open source software, I'd think very carefully about whether to do any open source work nowadays.

dkobia 3y ago
Thankfully many open source projects stem from people solving for their own problems then benevolently sharing their solution. It isn’t for everyone and we are all grateful for their contributions.
dingosity 3y ago
Meh. I make free stuff and I'm completely okay with people asking for more free stuff. I might be thinking of adding something you say you need, so it's cool to know what other people's requirements are. If they're simple to implement, and other people submit a test case for it, I'm fine with enhancement requests. HOWEVER... I've had a few people who say things like "OMG. YOU MUST DO IT THE WAY I THINK YOU SHOULD DO IT" or "ADD THIS FEATURE OR YOUR NOT A REAL OPEN SOURCE CONTRIBUTOR." And that is definitely annoying. I have a thick hide and don't mind just ignoring those people, but that shouldn't be the default assumption. The people who work on open source projects are people, so don't be a pushy jerk when you're requesting features from FLOSS projects. ALSO... Let people revel in the approval of their peers before pointing out things you would have done differently. This is a cool bit of kit.
zeroxfe 3y ago
> If I wasn't paid to work full time on open source software, I'd think very carefully about whether to do any open source work nowadays. I've been maintaining open source software for two decades now, and I still love it when people ask for more stuff. It signals engagement and satisfaction and gives me very concrete directional guidance around where I should take my software. I'm under no obligation to deliver on those requests. My day job pays my bills, my open source stuff brings me joy.
budoso 3y ago
Personally I think posting to Github is the offering part, posting the tool to HN is definitely an invitation for opinions.
sneak 3y ago
Reading requests is not burdensome. It's just feedback.
thangngoc89 3y ago
I wouldn't count those comments as asking for more free stuff. I would think of them as feature requests, ideas, suggestions. Whether or not to implement them is totally up to the author, and the author could charge for those if they decide to implement it.
- mactavish88 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - oblio 3y ago
    I'd have to at least switch tabs and that's very demanding.
  - thangngoc89 3y ago
    Isn't that the point of posting/ commenting on HN? So that we can discuss about the post? I see something on HN and after checking it, I would definitely comment on HN first.
    - mactavish88 3y ago
      As someone who has been working on open source software for 5 years now, GitHub issues are my primary source of truth for what users want and how to go about prioritizing features. If people can’t be bothered to log an issue or thumbs-up/comment on an existing one, it can’t be such an important thing to them.
      - josephg 3y ago
        Yeah; comments fill a different use case. And for that reason I still find comments interesting. I'd never write a github issue unless I have a clear use case for a feature, or a clear reproducable bug. And on the receiving side, I hate unclear discussion style issues - "This is cool but its slow when I do (hacky unsupported thing)". But with comments you surface much more "raw" reactions to things. "Oh cool - I didn't think about the problem like that". "I've always wanted something like this for (some weird problem)", or "How come everyone who tries to solve this problem uses approach X? Is there a reason people don't use approach Z?". Maybe as a maintainer, the beauty of HN comments is that you don't actually need to reply to them. Github issues sort of demand a response by their very being. If you leave them, they get in the way and make the issue repository basically useless. If you close them without responding, its kinda rude. And responding takes time. Comments, on the other hand, can just be comments. Its lovely.
oblio 3y ago
Nice comment! Could you please provide a few more details about what you mean exactly?
- waveBidder 3y ago
  it's hard to tell if you're mocking the grandparent or people making feature requests
  - oblio 3y ago
    Well, kind of both :-)
- barthvr 3y ago
  The first two comments (by timestamp) are one guy (OP) asking for an Obsidian plugin, and the second one is a guy asking for the implementation of swimlane diagrams.
CapsAdmin 3y ago
> It blows my mind though how the moment that someone offers free stuff, the first comments are people asking for more free stuff. If you create something from the perspective of "I had to make this on my unpaid spare time..", then requests for additional work do seem annoying. But is that the case here? If I made a utility I thought other people could also benefit from I'd personally be open to suggestions. I'd ignore a lot of them, but every now and then someone requests something interesting that sparks motivation to expand the utility.
- z500 3y ago
  I have a tool I've been working on on and off, and after several years it's actually working. But I was barely smart enough to do even that. If people actually started using it and asking for features that would be a nightmare for me lol
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    “No” is your friend in such scenarios. “Because I made it for me and I don’t need that” is your other friend if people are insistent. (A screenshot of the “fork” button on Github might be a third, rather muscly friend who doesn’t like to talk.) I do understand the desire to be helpful but one should put themself first when it comes to fulfilling requests. Just in case anyone gets here and is similarly discouraged. (Good job finishing the features you wanted!)
  - BossingAround 3y ago
    You can always say "feel free to fork my project, I currently don't have the bandwith." That's absolutely within the spirit of open source.
- xoac 3y ago
  Do you maintain any popular open source projects?
  - CapsAdmin 3y ago
    I have one popular project I've worked since around 2010. Lately I've let some of the long time users who can also code maintain it though. It's a character creation editor for a game, a bit like second life in a way. (it's called pac3 for garrymsmod) I don't have any numbers apart from steam workshop which claims 800k current subscribers, though that doesn't say anything about active users. But there are a lot of tutorials, discord groups, etc centered around this so I'd call it popular. The way I maintain this project is not very professional. I maximize my own joy first because if I don't have that, I can't work on the project. The community is loud, maybe because the community is also mostly young gamers. Sometimes I break things and people complain. Sometimes they can call me names, write long emotional posts about how I should revert something and how everything was better in the past version. But overall I enjoy working on the project and seeing the amazing things people create with it that I could never foresee. There are several channels for feature requests (github, discord, steamcommunity), but I don't actively follow it. I usually check when I'm not sure what to do but still feel like working on it. Sometimes people contact me directly to ask if I can add X feature. Sometimes that works. For features in general I try to implement something everyone can benefit from, since the editor allows you to create things from smaller building blocks, I'd rather make those smaller building blocks necessary to create the high level feature that was requested.
f1shy 3y ago
I see those requests as gratuitous feedback and ideas that could be useful. I‘m glad to have more requests. By no means I‘m going to implement them, but maybe some request triggers useful ideas.
j-a-a-p 3y ago
> It blows my mind though how the moment that someone offers free stuff... Try to launch a free service for consumers and experience how they are entitled to stuff just because you offer this service.

dkobia 3y ago

Thankfully many open source projects stem from people solving for their own problems then benevolently sharing their solution. It isn’t for everyone and we are all grateful for their contributions.

dingosity 3y ago

Meh. I make free stuff and I'm completely okay with people asking for more free stuff. I might be thinking of adding something you say you need, so it's cool to know what other people's requirements are. If they're simple to implement, and other people submit a test case for it, I'm fine with enhancement requests. HOWEVER... I've had a few people who say things like "OMG. YOU MUST DO IT THE WAY I THINK YOU SHOULD DO IT" or "ADD THIS FEATURE OR YOUR NOT A REAL OPEN SOURCE CONTRIBUTOR." And that is definitely annoying. I have a thick hide and don't mind just ignoring those people, but that shouldn't be the default assumption. The people who work on open source projects are people, so don't be a pushy jerk when you're requesting features from FLOSS projects. ALSO... Let people revel in the approval of their peers before pointing out things you would have done differently. This is a cool bit of kit.

zeroxfe 3y ago

> If I wasn't paid to work full time on open source software, I'd think very carefully about whether to do any open source work nowadays. I've been maintaining open source software for two decades now, and I still love it when people ask for more stuff. It signals engagement and satisfaction and gives me very concrete directional guidance around where I should take my software. I'm under no obligation to deliver on those requests. My day job pays my bills, my open source stuff brings me joy.

budoso 3y ago

Personally I think posting to Github is the offering part, posting the tool to HN is definitely an invitation for opinions.

sneak 3y ago

Reading requests is not burdensome. It's just feedback.

thangngoc89 3y ago

I wouldn't count those comments as asking for more free stuff. I would think of them as feature requests, ideas, suggestions. Whether or not to implement them is totally up to the author, and the author could charge for those if they decide to implement it.

mactavish88 3y ago
[flagged]
- oblio 3y ago
  I'd have to at least switch tabs and that's very demanding.
- thangngoc89 3y ago
  Isn't that the point of posting/ commenting on HN? So that we can discuss about the post? I see something on HN and after checking it, I would definitely comment on HN first.
  - mactavish88 3y ago
    As someone who has been working on open source software for 5 years now, GitHub issues are my primary source of truth for what users want and how to go about prioritizing features. If people can’t be bothered to log an issue or thumbs-up/comment on an existing one, it can’t be such an important thing to them.
    - josephg 3y ago
      Yeah; comments fill a different use case. And for that reason I still find comments interesting. I'd never write a github issue unless I have a clear use case for a feature, or a clear reproducable bug. And on the receiving side, I hate unclear discussion style issues - "This is cool but its slow when I do (hacky unsupported thing)". But with comments you surface much more "raw" reactions to things. "Oh cool - I didn't think about the problem like that". "I've always wanted something like this for (some weird problem)", or "How come everyone who tries to solve this problem uses approach X? Is there a reason people don't use approach Z?". Maybe as a maintainer, the beauty of HN comments is that you don't actually need to reply to them. Github issues sort of demand a response by their very being. If you leave them, they get in the way and make the issue repository basically useless. If you close them without responding, its kinda rude. And responding takes time. Comments, on the other hand, can just be comments. Its lovely.

oblio 3y ago

Nice comment! Could you please provide a few more details about what you mean exactly?

waveBidder 3y ago
it's hard to tell if you're mocking the grandparent or people making feature requests
- oblio 3y ago
  Well, kind of both :-)
barthvr 3y ago
The first two comments (by timestamp) are one guy (OP) asking for an Obsidian plugin, and the second one is a guy asking for the implementation of swimlane diagrams.

CapsAdmin 3y ago

> It blows my mind though how the moment that someone offers free stuff, the first comments are people asking for more free stuff. If you create something from the perspective of "I had to make this on my unpaid spare time..", then requests for additional work do seem annoying. But is that the case here? If I made a utility I thought other people could also benefit from I'd personally be open to suggestions. I'd ignore a lot of them, but every now and then someone requests something interesting that sparks motivation to expand the utility.

z500 3y ago
I have a tool I've been working on on and off, and after several years it's actually working. But I was barely smart enough to do even that. If people actually started using it and asking for features that would be a nightmare for me lol
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  “No” is your friend in such scenarios. “Because I made it for me and I don’t need that” is your other friend if people are insistent. (A screenshot of the “fork” button on Github might be a third, rather muscly friend who doesn’t like to talk.) I do understand the desire to be helpful but one should put themself first when it comes to fulfilling requests. Just in case anyone gets here and is similarly discouraged. (Good job finishing the features you wanted!)
- BossingAround 3y ago
  You can always say "feel free to fork my project, I currently don't have the bandwith." That's absolutely within the spirit of open source.
xoac 3y ago
Do you maintain any popular open source projects?
- CapsAdmin 3y ago
  I have one popular project I've worked since around 2010. Lately I've let some of the long time users who can also code maintain it though. It's a character creation editor for a game, a bit like second life in a way. (it's called pac3 for garrymsmod) I don't have any numbers apart from steam workshop which claims 800k current subscribers, though that doesn't say anything about active users. But there are a lot of tutorials, discord groups, etc centered around this so I'd call it popular. The way I maintain this project is not very professional. I maximize my own joy first because if I don't have that, I can't work on the project. The community is loud, maybe because the community is also mostly young gamers. Sometimes I break things and people complain. Sometimes they can call me names, write long emotional posts about how I should revert something and how everything was better in the past version. But overall I enjoy working on the project and seeing the amazing things people create with it that I could never foresee. There are several channels for feature requests (github, discord, steamcommunity), but I don't actively follow it. I usually check when I'm not sure what to do but still feel like working on it. Sometimes people contact me directly to ask if I can add X feature. Sometimes that works. For features in general I try to implement something everyone can benefit from, since the editor allows you to create things from smaller building blocks, I'd rather make those smaller building blocks necessary to create the high level feature that was requested.

f1shy 3y ago

I see those requests as gratuitous feedback and ideas that could be useful. I‘m glad to have more requests. By no means I‘m going to implement them, but maybe some request triggers useful ideas.

j-a-a-p 3y ago

> It blows my mind though how the moment that someone offers free stuff... Try to launch a free service for consumers and experience how they are entitled to stuff just because you offer this service.