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The short-lived experiment with rubber tires on railways (2013)
- brazzy 3y agoThere was also a design with a layer of rubber between an inner steel wheel and a thin outer steel tire. That was used by high speed trains in Germany - until one of the steel tires broke at 300 kilometers per hour and got stuck in a switch, causing the train to detail and hit the support column of an overpass, which collapsed on top of the train. 101 people dead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschede_train_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschede_train_disaster
- Sharlin 3y agoJesus Christ. Talk about a catastrophic failure. And crazy unlucky to happen just before an overpass.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoCrazy story. Thanks for sharing.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 3y agoI heard that in this story the managers took a ride on train at high speed and wanted it to be smoother/quieter and that these wheels with rubber would do that, but the engineers said it was a bad idea but were overruled - at least until the tragedy. There was a documentary about it but I can't find the link.
- netbioserror 3y agoThe author keeps asserting the "inherent weakness" of steel-on-steel railways; however, there are very good reasons it has been settled on as a good choice. Friction and sound losses are generally minimized, thanks to a very small contact surface and smooth, hard materials with little give; wheels can be re-machined back into spec a couple times rather than being replaced; rails can be re-used for lower-speed applications when worn; unlike pneumatic tires, steel can be machine into conical, self-centering, turn-adapting geometries with fixed axles and no need for differentials; the list continues and is quite long. Apparently, a recent change to wheel geometry reduced wear and extended lifetime by as much as 40%. See Practical Engineering's latest video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nteyw40i9So https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nteyw40i9So
- ianbicking 3y agoMakes a lot of sense for freight... lots of weight, most miles going through lower population areas. Feels a little silly for relatively light humans being transported through high population areas.
- singleshot_ 3y agoCheck out people movers at large airports: they look like trains, run on their own tracks, but have tires.
- TylerE 3y agoThe humans may be light... the car around them built to survive a 100mph crash certainly isn't.
- user_7832 3y agoSure but buses and cars themselves are strong enough and use rubber tyres. Not that I think rubber's a good idea for trains, but still.
- ianbicking 3y agoImagine what airplanes would look like if we wanted to build them to survive a crash... I'm also a little unclear how humans could survive a 100mph crash even if their container makes it through. If they were wearing a 4-point harness, I guess? Do they build crumple zones into train cars? Or... just rely on utterly demolishing anything they hit so the deceleration is kept under control? (https://www.reddit.com/r/BitchImATrain/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BitchImATrain/) Some nice analysis of survivable deceleration here (with restraints): https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/16545/even-after-years-of-research-why-are-planes-unable-to-keep-passengers-alive-in https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/16545/even-afte... (100mph=44m/s)
- jjoonathan 3y ago> Not just inefficient What? I thought wheel deformation was a huge source of drag and steel tires were one of the main reasons why trains were comparatively efficient.
- TylerE 3y agoThey are. This article is just...wrong.
- avidiax 3y ago> a comparable carriage fitted with pneumatic tyres could need as many as 20 wheels. How does a bus get by with far fewer wheels? I think the answer is that they are still building with the same weight as a train, rather than a bus. That points out an unexplored engineering envelope for modern trains, made possible by newer technologies: * Very light trains. Think lighter than road cars, since they don't need crumple zones or crash worthiness. * Virtual coupling. Basically platooning on rails. Now the cars need to at most push/tow one other disabled car, so they don't need a beefy chassis to support towing long trains, coupling forces, etc. * Homogenous cars. They all have traction motors, small batteries and sensors and compute. Think a low-range Tesla on rails. * Autonomous control. Self-driving on rails. No operator cab. Since the train is now quite light, with a reasonable stopping distance, obstructions on the track can be potentially avoided so long as the sensors are adequate. * Much faster acceleration and deceleration. With leaning, they could also corner faster. * Probably intrinsically quieter, but now pneumatic tires would probably have reasonable life.
- xnx 3y agoExcellent ideas. In the US, metropolitan rail transit systems need a dramatic reimagining. They are expensive, slow, and often crime ridden. Would love to see their right of way put to better use.
- Zone3513 3y agoWe should rip out the train tracks, put down asphalt, and convert them to car tunnels, but to be used only by people driving one specific brand of car.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- xnx 3y agoYou joke, but a dedicated lane for self driving vehicles (either privately or publicly owned) could be lower cost and better utilization of the resources.
- sreedhark 3y agoI remember this thread from hn. Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37726539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37726539 Link to the article - https://www.thedrive.com/news/tire-dust-makes-up-the-majority-of-ocean-microplastics-study-finds https://www.thedrive.com/news/tire-dust-makes-up-the-majorit...
- somat 3y agoThe fun experiment was the paper wheels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_car_wheel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_car_wheel
- woodpanel 3y agoCan somebody explain to me the difference between this „short lived experience“ and the actual ongoing decades long operations of tire based metro/subway systems? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-tyred_metro https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-tyred_metro
- andbberger 3y agomichelin, apocryphally
- paulkrush 3y agoI second your request. I am guessing for starters that the article is taking about rubber on steel rails and your link is rubber tire metros.
- superchroma 3y agoJapan has a train-on-tires on an elevated overpass track around Tokyo bay. It's pretty neat.
- jjgreen 3y agoStill in use on a few lines of the Paris Métro
- almatabata 3y agoIs it this system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-tyred_metro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-tyred_metro It mentions Paris Metro line 14.
- lbourdages 3y agoAlso the entirety of the Montreal Metro, which was inspired by the Paris Metro.
- NeoTar 3y agoAnd Sapporo in Hokkaido.
- ilamont 3y agoSo does Taipei's Wenhu line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenhu_line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenhu_line) which was built by a French consortium in the 90s (Matra IIRC). Construction disputes were epic but it seems to operate very smoothly now. The other lines in the system are rail-based.
- lqet 3y agoAFAIK, basically all French subway systems opened after the 1960s use this system. This is one of the things I strongly associate with Paris: the slight smell of burned rubber when you enter a Métro station of a line with rubber tires. Pro tip for Paris visitors with children: ride with one of the automated lines 1, 4 or 14, and enter through the very first door. There is a fake (printed) control panel for children below the front window [0]. [0] https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2GC1HTP/paris-automatische-metro-m14-fahrerstand-fr-kinder-paris-automatic-metro-line-m14-cockpit-for-children-2GC1HTP.jpg https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2GC1HTP/paris-automatische-metro-m...
- littlestymaar 3y ago