6 ms·

What is your “Orange Juice Test” question?

39 points by prakhar897 3y ago

analog31 3y ago
I used to do this to salesmen, ask them a simple factual question about the product, to see if they'd lie to me. They all lied to me. I don't ask salesmen questions any more.
- conception 3y ago
  This it’s my experience as well. Sales is not a source of truth in any capacity. They are just there to get you to sign. Pricing, functionality, support? Ask someone else.
- bluedino 3y ago
  You know how you can tell they are about to lie, they use the scripted "Wow. Yea. Great question, analog31. So, as a company, Foobuzz puts their customers first, so..."
- throw9away6 3y ago
  The question is can you add a poison pill to the contract, let them fail then not pay them out pay at a severely reduced rate.
- rendall 3y ago
  Yes, I noted this part: People think that quoting the actual cost will drive away prospective customers, but genuine customers appreciate honest and transparent responses. This is, unfortunately, not true. Must customers will almost always choose the cheaper alternative, even knowing it will likely be more expensive in the long run.
mooreds 3y ago
If you are selling devtools, the best way I've found to succeed with the OJ test is to have a technical person on the first call. Not the second, not gated by a sales rep, but on the first call. Sure, it's expensive, but if a dev is hopping on a call, they darn well want to get technical answers. You can really really antagonize someone by not helping them out. Of course, better yet is to allow them to set up a free account or otherwise have access to the tool to determine if it will meet their needs without talking to anyone at all.
cramjabsyn 3y ago
My go to orange juice question is pulp or no pulp
- thfuran 3y ago
  That's not a real question. Pulp isn't juice. Might as well leave the seeds in and maybe a few leaves for good measure.
  - Woeps 3y ago
    "Pulp isn't juice" True, but a juice can contain pulp, and that's what they're asking. You want the juice with or without pulp.
    - thfuran 3y ago
      Juice can contain pulp like salad can contain dirt.
  - drekk 3y ago
    The difference being pulp is ripe fruit in a fruit juice you're drinking and seeds/leaves/dirt are not edible for us in the first place. I seriously don't get it—if you don't like fruit why drink fruit juice. Plenty of "fruit flavored" ones (I'm partial to Aranciata Rossa Pellegrino)
    - thfuran 3y ago
      The seeds and leaves are edible. They just don't taste good (and aren't juice). >I seriously don't get it—if you don't like fruit why drink fruit juice So you include the seeds, rind, and pith in your juices, right? Or are you just a pretend fruit liker as well?
  - cramjabsyn 3y ago
    And cream is not coffee but here we are
thfuran 3y ago
>The only response worth serious consideration is ‘we can do this — and this is how much it will cost’. Others are either fluffing to get the business or are not serious about their offer. On the other hand, from the service provider's point of view, the only correct answer is "No" or perhaps a price so high that it might justify dealing with a nightmare client.
belter 3y ago
The Orange Juice Test (1985) - 5 years ago - 173 comments - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17723320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17723320
vintermann 3y ago
This comes dangerously close to "shit-testing", making a difficult and unreasonable demand not because you care, but because you want to test the other's loyalty. I think such strategies may be poisonous in the longer term. Now you've got to drink that damn orange juice, your business gets a reputation for obsession with rituals involving orange juice, and maybe even people start believing it - or start enjoying being difficult a little too much.
- throw9away6 3y ago
  I mean it’s not that hard to rent a couple juicing machines and make 700 cups of oj. Maybe a bit expensive because you have to source them in a large radius but not crazy expensive. If it has to be done manually ok then it’s just expensive because of labor costs but still 20 people could probably knock it out with a press. I’d probably charge at least 5-6$ a head for that ideally closer to $10 just because it’s not simple to arrange but doable
  - upon_drumhead 3y ago
    Or the venue is just lying and gives you frozen concentrate.
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    A cup of orange juice is typically pretty small and resturant juicers work pretty fast. A big banquet hall that does mimosas probably already has the equipment to accommodate this request. (Or close enough, I'd juice a bit the night before to get a sense of the time and have some in case we run out)
    - hattmall 3y ago
      And realistically, I saw no requirement of 100% fresh squeezed orange juice. So at most we're doing 51% fresh squeezed. I'm not sure it specified a size either. So we can certainly shave half an ounce or more off of whatever is customary.
hcks 3y ago
“What is your way to stay a toxic middle manager?”
karmakaze 3y ago
And Van Halen's No Brown M&M's clause[0] in the contract for verifying. "To ensure the promoter had read every single word in the contract, the band created the "no brown M&M's" clause. It was a canary in a coalmine to indicate that the promoter may have not paid attention to other more important parts of the rider, and that there could be other bigger problems at hand." [0] https://www.entrepreneur.com/growing-a-business/no-brown-mms-what-van-halens-insane-contract-clause/232420 https://www.entrepreneur.com/growing-a-business/no-brown-mms...
- nicbou 3y ago
  I used this one before. I'd simply write "in your email, mention what you had for breakfast". The success rate was about 60%.
PopAlongKid 3y ago
There seems to be an unstated assumption in the article that every potential customer is worth doing whatever it takes to close the deal. I say no -- knowing when to disengage with PITA customers is one of the most valuable business skills to have.
- GuB-42 3y ago
  It depends if you are charging for premium service or not. If you want a cheap banquet, the organizer will probably tell you to put all your oranges where the sun doesn't shine. As a budget service provider, his job is to find you the best deal, with streamlined service, a limited number of suppliers and high volume deals, etc... Now if you are going to a luxury service provider, you can essentially ask anything, he will deliver orange juice on the moon if you want to. His job is no longer to find you a good deal, his job is to do whatever it takes to do what you want if you have the money. You will obviously pay a lot more, even for regular service, but that orange juice breakfast should be easy. It reminds me of documentaries about the most luxurious hotels. Like preparing a bridge table in the room of a repeat customer, or one who forgot his passport and they immediately dispatched a chauffeur to bring it to him at the airport. All of that without even being asked. That's what you get when you pay several thousands a night. Part of the price is for being ready to handle any situation.

39 points by prakhar897 3y ago

I used to do this to salesmen, ask them a simple factual question about the product, to see if they'd lie to me. They all lied to me. I don't ask salesmen questions any more.

conception 3y ago
This it’s my experience as well. Sales is not a source of truth in any capacity. They are just there to get you to sign. Pricing, functionality, support? Ask someone else.
bluedino 3y ago
You know how you can tell they are about to lie, they use the scripted "Wow. Yea. Great question, analog31. So, as a company, Foobuzz puts their customers first, so..."
throw9away6 3y ago
The question is can you add a poison pill to the contract, let them fail then not pay them out pay at a severely reduced rate.
rendall 3y ago
Yes, I noted this part: People think that quoting the actual cost will drive away prospective customers, but genuine customers appreciate honest and transparent responses. This is, unfortunately, not true. Must customers will almost always choose the cheaper alternative, even knowing it will likely be more expensive in the long run.

mooreds 3y ago

If you are selling devtools, the best way I've found to succeed with the OJ test is to have a technical person on the first call. Not the second, not gated by a sales rep, but on the first call. Sure, it's expensive, but if a dev is hopping on a call, they darn well want to get technical answers. You can really really antagonize someone by not helping them out. Of course, better yet is to allow them to set up a free account or otherwise have access to the tool to determine if it will meet their needs without talking to anyone at all.

cramjabsyn 3y ago

My go to orange juice question is pulp or no pulp

thfuran 3y ago
That's not a real question. Pulp isn't juice. Might as well leave the seeds in and maybe a few leaves for good measure.
- Woeps 3y ago
  "Pulp isn't juice" True, but a juice can contain pulp, and that's what they're asking. You want the juice with or without pulp.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    Juice can contain pulp like salad can contain dirt.
- drekk 3y ago
  The difference being pulp is ripe fruit in a fruit juice you're drinking and seeds/leaves/dirt are not edible for us in the first place. I seriously don't get it—if you don't like fruit why drink fruit juice. Plenty of "fruit flavored" ones (I'm partial to Aranciata Rossa Pellegrino)
  - thfuran 3y ago
    The seeds and leaves are edible. They just don't taste good (and aren't juice). >I seriously don't get it—if you don't like fruit why drink fruit juice So you include the seeds, rind, and pith in your juices, right? Or are you just a pretend fruit liker as well?
- cramjabsyn 3y ago
  And cream is not coffee but here we are

thfuran 3y ago

>The only response worth serious consideration is ‘we can do this — and this is how much it will cost’. Others are either fluffing to get the business or are not serious about their offer. On the other hand, from the service provider's point of view, the only correct answer is "No" or perhaps a price so high that it might justify dealing with a nightmare client.

belter 3y ago

The Orange Juice Test (1985) - 5 years ago - 173 comments - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17723320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17723320

vintermann 3y ago

This comes dangerously close to "shit-testing", making a difficult and unreasonable demand not because you care, but because you want to test the other's loyalty. I think such strategies may be poisonous in the longer term. Now you've got to drink that damn orange juice, your business gets a reputation for obsession with rituals involving orange juice, and maybe even people start believing it - or start enjoying being difficult a little too much.

throw9away6 3y ago
I mean it’s not that hard to rent a couple juicing machines and make 700 cups of oj. Maybe a bit expensive because you have to source them in a large radius but not crazy expensive. If it has to be done manually ok then it’s just expensive because of labor costs but still 20 people could probably knock it out with a press. I’d probably charge at least 5-6$ a head for that ideally closer to $10 just because it’s not simple to arrange but doable
- upon_drumhead 3y ago
  Or the venue is just lying and gives you frozen concentrate.
- willcipriano 3y ago
  A cup of orange juice is typically pretty small and resturant juicers work pretty fast. A big banquet hall that does mimosas probably already has the equipment to accommodate this request. (Or close enough, I'd juice a bit the night before to get a sense of the time and have some in case we run out)
  - hattmall 3y ago
    And realistically, I saw no requirement of 100% fresh squeezed orange juice. So at most we're doing 51% fresh squeezed. I'm not sure it specified a size either. So we can certainly shave half an ounce or more off of whatever is customary.

hcks 3y ago

“What is your way to stay a toxic middle manager?”

karmakaze 3y ago

And Van Halen's No Brown M&M's clause[0] in the contract for verifying. "To ensure the promoter had read every single word in the contract, the band created the "no brown M&M's" clause. It was a canary in a coalmine to indicate that the promoter may have not paid attention to other more important parts of the rider, and that there could be other bigger problems at hand." [0] https://www.entrepreneur.com/growing-a-business/no-brown-mms-what-van-halens-insane-contract-clause/232420 https://www.entrepreneur.com/growing-a-business/no-brown-mms...

nicbou 3y ago
I used this one before. I'd simply write "in your email, mention what you had for breakfast". The success rate was about 60%.

PopAlongKid 3y ago

There seems to be an unstated assumption in the article that every potential customer is worth doing whatever it takes to close the deal. I say no -- knowing when to disengage with PITA customers is one of the most valuable business skills to have.

GuB-42 3y ago
It depends if you are charging for premium service or not. If you want a cheap banquet, the organizer will probably tell you to put all your oranges where the sun doesn't shine. As a budget service provider, his job is to find you the best deal, with streamlined service, a limited number of suppliers and high volume deals, etc... Now if you are going to a luxury service provider, you can essentially ask anything, he will deliver orange juice on the moon if you want to. His job is no longer to find you a good deal, his job is to do whatever it takes to do what you want if you have the money. You will obviously pay a lot more, even for regular service, but that orange juice breakfast should be easy. It reminds me of documentaries about the most luxurious hotels. Like preparing a bridge table in the room of a repeat customer, or one who forgot his passport and they immediately dispatched a chauffeur to bring it to him at the airport. All of that without even being asked. That's what you get when you pay several thousands a night. Part of the price is for being ready to handle any situation.