4 ms·

> meaning users are treated to a 25.3-inch Kaleido 3 E Ink screen ... yet the largest Kaleido screen size mentioned on E Ink's official website is 13.3-inch. A

by p-e-w 3y ago

> meaning users are treated to a 25.3-inch Kaleido 3 E Ink screen ... yet the largest Kaleido screen size mentioned on E Ink's official website is 13.3-inch. And such screens most certainly don't have a ~60 Hz refresh rate like in the mockup video from the article. So I'm a little skeptical here, to put it mildly.

chx 3y ago
60Hz is not mentioned anywhere on the Kickstarter page. That's just shoddy reporting AFAIK. https://www.eink.com/news/detail/E-Ink-Launches-E-Ink-Kaleido-3-Outdoor-ePaper-Technology https://www.eink.com/news/detail/E-Ink-Launches-E-Ink-Kaleid... > Available in sizes ranging from 13.3 inches to 42 inches, the latest E Ink Kaleido 3 Outdoor color ePaper technology will be showcased at Touch Taiwan 2023 from April 19-21, 2023.
- p-e-w 3y ago
  > 60Hz is not mentioned anywhere on the Kickstarter page. The article has a video showing smooth scrolling on the screen, which is completely impossible with current e-paper technology, unless there has been a recent revolution that I'm not aware of.
  - taylorius 3y ago
    I was going to say, that "video" of the e-ink screen looks a LOT quicker to refresh than anything I've previously seen.
    - rbanffy 3y ago
      I remember seeing e-ink panel demos where the integrator claimed the usual slow refresh was a side effect of the low power requirements rather than a limitation of the panel. They claimed that a controller designed for fast refresh could show moving video on an e-ink panel. It kind of makes sense because you can address individual pixels in the panel and they can change state faster if you apply higher tensions. The trick is to refresh the whole panel at least 30 times per second. You can also fool the human brain by rendering motion blur.
      - iforgotpassword 3y ago
        15fps already looks kinda cool on eink, even with the ghosting artifacts. Not that I'd recommend watching movies like that, but still. Harry Potter newspaper in reach. :)
      - londons_explore 3y ago
        This is true on black and white eink displays. But for color, I'm not so sure.
  - fzzzy 3y ago
    you are incorrect.
ThrowawayR2 3y ago
As mentioned at the top of the article, Dasung launched an Indiegogo campaign for a 25.3" color e-ink monitor recently, so the display module exists: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/paperlike-color-world-first-color-e-ink-monitor#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/paperlike-color-world-fir... I'd agree about the refresh rate; the refresh rate seems fairly low in Dasung's promo video for it and the campaign description seems to lack any mention of refresh rate.
- c0balt 3y ago
  The refresh rate of this display was somewhat demonstrated in this[0] LTT video on the KickStarter display. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZXrJRpA0Jw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZXrJRpA0Jw
  - averageRoyalty 3y ago
    Whilst I understand the distrust of LTT, this user has posted a link yo a video demoing the display, and the downvotes aren't really useful here.
  - jnsaff2 3y ago
    Do you consider this LTT video truthful and worth a watch? After their recent bruhaha on the tubes I have pretty much stopped looking at them. The content is arrogant and dismissive, generally low quality. I try to avoid sources that are known for factual errors and biases towards entertainment/charisma over nuance. A bit sad.
    - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
      >recent bruhaha on the tubes I haven't kept up with LTT, what happened here to reduce your trust in their channel?
      - jnsaff2 3y ago
        TL;DR people claim that there is a relentless pressure to push out content and therefore there are lots of benchmarks incorrect, factual problems and many problems where the correction is blended as a text instead of just cutting out incorrect stuff or reshooting lines. There are also claims of undeclared interests and biased reviews, also some obvious assholery where for great fun and ignorance they destroy/sell/bash development samples from startups. Just search for "ltt drama" on youtube and you see pages of tubers flaming it.
tomaskafka 3y ago
In the video, there is the phone-to-screen projection mockup, which is smooth and, imo absolutely fake, and cca one second where a developer is dragging the window from LCD to e-ink screen, and it shows the real frame rate, about 3–5 fps.
- DaiPlusPlus 3y ago
  Even at 3fps, the process of repainting an eink/epaper display is unpleasant to look at - though at a microscopic level it's quite beautiful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qIHCUWAgh4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qIHCUWAgh4
  - mdekkers 3y ago
    Interesting, thanks. Unfortunately the combination of super annoying background sound and the totally weird voiceover drove me to close the tab about halfway through.

by p-e-w 3y ago

chx 3y ago

60Hz is not mentioned anywhere on the Kickstarter page. That's just shoddy reporting AFAIK. https://www.eink.com/news/detail/E-Ink-Launches-E-Ink-Kaleido-3-Outdoor-ePaper-Technology https://www.eink.com/news/detail/E-Ink-Launches-E-Ink-Kaleid... > Available in sizes ranging from 13.3 inches to 42 inches, the latest E Ink Kaleido 3 Outdoor color ePaper technology will be showcased at Touch Taiwan 2023 from April 19-21, 2023.

p-e-w 3y ago
> 60Hz is not mentioned anywhere on the Kickstarter page. The article has a video showing smooth scrolling on the screen, which is completely impossible with current e-paper technology, unless there has been a recent revolution that I'm not aware of.
- taylorius 3y ago
  I was going to say, that "video" of the e-ink screen looks a LOT quicker to refresh than anything I've previously seen.
  - rbanffy 3y ago
    I remember seeing e-ink panel demos where the integrator claimed the usual slow refresh was a side effect of the low power requirements rather than a limitation of the panel. They claimed that a controller designed for fast refresh could show moving video on an e-ink panel. It kind of makes sense because you can address individual pixels in the panel and they can change state faster if you apply higher tensions. The trick is to refresh the whole panel at least 30 times per second. You can also fool the human brain by rendering motion blur.
    - iforgotpassword 3y ago
      15fps already looks kinda cool on eink, even with the ghosting artifacts. Not that I'd recommend watching movies like that, but still. Harry Potter newspaper in reach. :)
    - londons_explore 3y ago
      This is true on black and white eink displays. But for color, I'm not so sure.
- fzzzy 3y ago
  you are incorrect.

ThrowawayR2 3y ago

As mentioned at the top of the article, Dasung launched an Indiegogo campaign for a 25.3" color e-ink monitor recently, so the display module exists: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/paperlike-color-world-first-color-e-ink-monitor#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/paperlike-color-world-fir... I'd agree about the refresh rate; the refresh rate seems fairly low in Dasung's promo video for it and the campaign description seems to lack any mention of refresh rate.

c0balt 3y ago
The refresh rate of this display was somewhat demonstrated in this[0] LTT video on the KickStarter display. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZXrJRpA0Jw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZXrJRpA0Jw
- averageRoyalty 3y ago
  Whilst I understand the distrust of LTT, this user has posted a link yo a video demoing the display, and the downvotes aren't really useful here.
- jnsaff2 3y ago
  Do you consider this LTT video truthful and worth a watch? After their recent bruhaha on the tubes I have pretty much stopped looking at them. The content is arrogant and dismissive, generally low quality. I try to avoid sources that are known for factual errors and biases towards entertainment/charisma over nuance. A bit sad.
  - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
    >recent bruhaha on the tubes I haven't kept up with LTT, what happened here to reduce your trust in their channel?
    - jnsaff2 3y ago
      TL;DR people claim that there is a relentless pressure to push out content and therefore there are lots of benchmarks incorrect, factual problems and many problems where the correction is blended as a text instead of just cutting out incorrect stuff or reshooting lines. There are also claims of undeclared interests and biased reviews, also some obvious assholery where for great fun and ignorance they destroy/sell/bash development samples from startups. Just search for "ltt drama" on youtube and you see pages of tubers flaming it.

tomaskafka 3y ago

In the video, there is the phone-to-screen projection mockup, which is smooth and, imo absolutely fake, and cca one second where a developer is dragging the window from LCD to e-ink screen, and it shows the real frame rate, about 3–5 fps.

DaiPlusPlus 3y ago
Even at 3fps, the process of repainting an eink/epaper display is unpleasant to look at - though at a microscopic level it's quite beautiful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qIHCUWAgh4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qIHCUWAgh4
- mdekkers 3y ago
  Interesting, thanks. Unfortunately the combination of super annoying background sound and the totally weird voiceover drove me to close the tab about halfway through.