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I don't even get the point of these hardcore Apple defenders tbh man. You are not Apple, and you only gain to benefit from if supposedly they have good hardware

I don't even get the point of these hardcore Apple defenders tbh man. You are not Apple, and you only gain to benefit from if supposedly they have good hardware and software, it also becomes more open for you or others to find better uses for it. You only gain not lose from that. Here on an HN linked article I was reading how Asahi managed to find and fix some audio bug in a macbook model. When multiple people are working on drivers often the foss can end up being superior to the drivers made by the manufacturer.

scarface_74 3y ago
So every single “open” standard seems to suck compared to the integrated solution.
- donkeybeer 3y ago
  What do you gain from it remaining closed? Why are you so defensive about the idea of Apple being forced to open it up? Are you an Apple employee or do you have Apple stocks or is there any other reason? You lose literally nothing and gain lots from them being opened up. I don't care about any "trouble" Apple has with it because I am not Apple. I am a person who thinks of his needs first, just as Apple is an entity that thinks of their needs first. They don't need your help for that. Just like Apple my needs come first, and my needs definitely think its more enjoyable to see Apple (and other hardware makers) opened up because it benefits me. I always advocate for and practice things that benefit me, I don't care if it benefits Apple, if it does, good for them, if it doesn't its not my problem either. And Apple thinks the same of you and me and all is customers.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Well, the first thing I gain is a non shitty way of using Bluetooth headphones without “some gotchas”.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      You get that with or without Apple technology. There's not a single 'gotcha' you've named yet. Furthermore, Apple's integrated solution quite literally depends on the Open standard of Bluetooth to operate. Whether or not you consider it a bad thing, quite obviously the integration and open solution both work fine alongside one another.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        I didn’t say there were “some gotchas” the person defending the open standards did https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37733315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37733315 Yes and the phone also depends on standards when it comes to electricity. The fact is that Apple’s work on top of the standard provide a more robust more user friendly implementation.
        donkeybeer 3y ago
        Please answer the sibling question above, what is the difficulty in answering such a simple, clearly stated question? Why are you refusing to answer that and trying to change the topic each time?
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Which question is that? Apple implemented things on top of the standard to make Apple headphones work better than standard BT devices with their own hardware. But they still implement the standards. This shows the power of an integrated solution. Apple released a better way to pair Bluetooth headphones with their devices and at the same time got the better method implemented across their computers, phones, tablets, watches and set top boxes. That’s something you couldn’t do with an open standard as quickly. I pair my headphones to one device that I’m signed into and they automatically get recognized by all my devices.
        donkeybeer 3y ago
smoldesu 3y ago
This website is not a serious place. Intelligent people are not attracted to a platform calling itself "Hacker News" - roleplayers and onlookers get sucked in instead. Venture capitalists and entrepreneurs get tricked into thinking that this is problem-solving. DogTV™ gets funded and busts out, destitute shareholders and makers go looking for the next big thing. The cycle continues. With some people, I have no idea where they fall on the spectrum of self-serious argumentation. I usually don't even care; pretty much all feedback is valuable on a forum like this. When people preclude good-faith discussion around Apple hardware with weaksauce rhetoric though, it's pretty obvious that they're putting their emotions first. I'll field any discussion around Apple and their altruism, but I won't accept petty greed or speculation as a defense. They're an opaque company that deserves the scrutiny they recieve, regardless of the unofficial rationale people roll out. This problem isn't specific to Apple hardware, or really the tech industry as a whole. Every field has it's pundits; you can usually identify them when they use weak rhetoric and avoid directly addressing your argument. It's still especially bad with Apple technology though, since so little of it is documented well enough to definitively refute any claim. You can't corroborate behavior on your iPhone with source code, or visit the iCloud datacenters to ensure everything is being handled with white gloves. People who know the platform well usually know that there is no definitive answer, and inflammatory riff-raff discussions float to the top.

scarface_74 3y ago

So every single “open” standard seems to suck compared to the integrated solution.

donkeybeer 3y ago
What do you gain from it remaining closed? Why are you so defensive about the idea of Apple being forced to open it up? Are you an Apple employee or do you have Apple stocks or is there any other reason? You lose literally nothing and gain lots from them being opened up. I don't care about any "trouble" Apple has with it because I am not Apple. I am a person who thinks of his needs first, just as Apple is an entity that thinks of their needs first. They don't need your help for that. Just like Apple my needs come first, and my needs definitely think its more enjoyable to see Apple (and other hardware makers) opened up because it benefits me. I always advocate for and practice things that benefit me, I don't care if it benefits Apple, if it does, good for them, if it doesn't its not my problem either. And Apple thinks the same of you and me and all is customers.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Well, the first thing I gain is a non shitty way of using Bluetooth headphones without “some gotchas”.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    You get that with or without Apple technology. There's not a single 'gotcha' you've named yet. Furthermore, Apple's integrated solution quite literally depends on the Open standard of Bluetooth to operate. Whether or not you consider it a bad thing, quite obviously the integration and open solution both work fine alongside one another.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      I didn’t say there were “some gotchas” the person defending the open standards did https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37733315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37733315 Yes and the phone also depends on standards when it comes to electricity. The fact is that Apple’s work on top of the standard provide a more robust more user friendly implementation.
      - donkeybeer 3y ago
        Please answer the sibling question above, what is the difficulty in answering such a simple, clearly stated question? Why are you refusing to answer that and trying to change the topic each time?
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Which question is that? Apple implemented things on top of the standard to make Apple headphones work better than standard BT devices with their own hardware. But they still implement the standards. This shows the power of an integrated solution. Apple released a better way to pair Bluetooth headphones with their devices and at the same time got the better method implemented across their computers, phones, tablets, watches and set top boxes. That’s something you couldn’t do with an open standard as quickly. I pair my headphones to one device that I’m signed into and they automatically get recognized by all my devices.
        donkeybeer 3y ago

smoldesu 3y ago

This website is not a serious place. Intelligent people are not attracted to a platform calling itself "Hacker News" - roleplayers and onlookers get sucked in instead. Venture capitalists and entrepreneurs get tricked into thinking that this is problem-solving. DogTV™ gets funded and busts out, destitute shareholders and makers go looking for the next big thing. The cycle continues. With some people, I have no idea where they fall on the spectrum of self-serious argumentation. I usually don't even care; pretty much all feedback is valuable on a forum like this. When people preclude good-faith discussion around Apple hardware with weaksauce rhetoric though, it's pretty obvious that they're putting their emotions first. I'll field any discussion around Apple and their altruism, but I won't accept petty greed or speculation as a defense. They're an opaque company that deserves the scrutiny they recieve, regardless of the unofficial rationale people roll out. This problem isn't specific to Apple hardware, or really the tech industry as a whole. Every field has it's pundits; you can usually identify them when they use weak rhetoric and avoid directly addressing your argument. It's still especially bad with Apple technology though, since so little of it is documented well enough to definitively refute any claim. You can't corroborate behavior on your iPhone with source code, or visit the iCloud datacenters to ensure everything is being handled with white gloves. People who know the platform well usually know that there is no definitive answer, and inflammatory riff-raff discussions float to the top.