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I think the definition given in the article is pretty squarely accurate. The fundamental "problem" of consciousness is that systems are deterministic (and/or r

by sdwr 3y ago

I think the definition given in the article is pretty squarely accurate. The fundamental "problem" of consciousness is that systems are deterministic (and/or random), so where is that special spark? Surely a machine can't be conscious, because they don't have that special magic that we do. But when we look closely at our own bodies and brains, they function a lot like machines... Consciousness is an overloaded concept that folds a lot of things in. Legal culpability, rights and privileges, communication, connection, meaning. You can easily partition your life in such a way that (percieved) consciousness emerges in things other than people. Places, animals, concepts, ritual behaviour can all fit the criteria, if you let them. As computing people, distributed consciousness should not seem any weirder than microservices or docker containers.

deleted 3y ago
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robotresearcher 3y ago
This statement assumes a special spark or special magic. Stop assuming that, and what remains of the problem?
- friend_and_foe 3y ago
  What remains from my perspective is that consciousness doesn't exist, everything is just a deterministic machine when isolated and a probabilistic one upon interaction with the external. But we experience consciousness, so we are missing something. Unless you think consciousness is an illusion, and that begs the question, an illusion to whom? All that remains is an unanswered question. That special spark is what we are trying to pin down and explain and understand, it might not be special or a spark, but we don't know how else to describe it right now.
winddude 3y ago
| But when we look closely at our own bodies and brains, they function a lot like machines... do they? Or are you just seeing the aspects of ourselves that we've been trying to place on machines since forever. Or personification, the human aspects we put on machines to relate to them, a car needs fuel, humans need fuel, we're both machines, etc.
bsder 3y ago
> The fundamental "problem" of consciousness is that systems are deterministic (and/or random), Our biological systems are much closer to random than deterministic. However, they are not purely random, either. Things are very much biased in normally beneficial ways. And that's before we start talking about processes that actually depend upon quantum mechanics to operate properly (see: photosynthesis).

by sdwr 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

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robotresearcher 3y ago

This statement assumes a special spark or special magic. Stop assuming that, and what remains of the problem?

friend_and_foe 3y ago
What remains from my perspective is that consciousness doesn't exist, everything is just a deterministic machine when isolated and a probabilistic one upon interaction with the external. But we experience consciousness, so we are missing something. Unless you think consciousness is an illusion, and that begs the question, an illusion to whom? All that remains is an unanswered question. That special spark is what we are trying to pin down and explain and understand, it might not be special or a spark, but we don't know how else to describe it right now.

winddude 3y ago

| But when we look closely at our own bodies and brains, they function a lot like machines... do they? Or are you just seeing the aspects of ourselves that we've been trying to place on machines since forever. Or personification, the human aspects we put on machines to relate to them, a car needs fuel, humans need fuel, we're both machines, etc.

bsder 3y ago

> The fundamental "problem" of consciousness is that systems are deterministic (and/or random), Our biological systems are much closer to random than deterministic. However, they are not purely random, either. Things are very much biased in normally beneficial ways. And that's before we start talking about processes that actually depend upon quantum mechanics to operate properly (see: photosynthesis).