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How in the world is your everyday experience "better" today as a result of Apple's vertical integration? Spoiler: it isn't.

scarface_74 3y ago
Really? I have a silent fanless MacBook Air running an Apple designed chip, with an Apple written OS where I can move my cursor between it and my iPad sitting right besides it and my keyboard and mouse can control both seanlessly. It also gets 16 hours of battery life. And then I have a Windows laptop with piss poor battery life, sounds like a 747 at idle and runs hot enough that if I actually put it in my lap , it would endure that I don’t ever have any little Scarface’s On the phone side, the day that Apple releases a new version of iOS, it’s immediately available worldwide for every iPhone that was introduced in the last four years. Is the same true for Android devices?
- spookie 3y ago
  Colleagues of mine aren't able to use their Macs for work since they're unable to target the hardware we're working on. Perhaps with Asahi Linux they could. But even then, support isn't great.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  [dead]
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  Apple would still be able to do all of that. The main reason Windows sucks is that Windows sucks. No specialized hardware can change that. The second reason is that hardware manufacturers make shitty drivers; because it shouldn't be their job in the first place. And why is OS X so good? They scrapped the original MacOS, and started fresh with a fork of BSD. None of that has anything to do with monopolizing hardware. It's also absurd to compare Apple's limited selection of exclusively flagship devices against every existing Android device. Compare them with their direct competition, and your point is moot. If Apple's hardware division was broken off into a separate company, Apple's software division would be able to do everything they do today as a customer of that hardware company. The only difference would be that everyone else could too.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    So none of the fact that my MacBook Air runs quiet and fast running Apple designed processors, using an Apple designed OS, and integrating with other Apple hardware has anything to do with Apple being integrated? And it shouldn’t be the company’s responsibility that made the hardware to make drivers and they should depend on who to do it then?
    - thomastjeffery 3y ago
      Whoever writes the OS is in a much better position to write drivers. This is the reason Linux drivers are (usually) very good. This is also why the current vertically integrated Apple is able to write good drivers: it isn't an isolated hardware manufacturer writing a driver. Because it's all one company, the OS team can be involved with driver development. The solution for everyone would be to simply publish the hardware spec such that Apple, Microsoft, and Linux devs are able to write their own drivers. The notion that hardware specs must be kept secret (because driver development is integrated with hardware development) is harming everyone, except the select few who have their own seats in the backroom. Vertical integration is creating the very problem that you see Apple solving with vertical integration. Unfortunately, Apple is solving it exclusively for Apple, while hanging everyone else out to dry. This situation is not unique to Apple, which is why we have shitty NVidia drivers in Linux, and why Android hardware support ends.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        > Whoever writes the OS is in a much better position to write drivers. This is the reason Linux drivers are (usually) very good. You really think that Linux developers would know how to squeeze better performance out of Nvidia hardware than the Nvidia even with the design specs? Nvidia has the foremost experts in designing GPUs and software around it (Cuda). The software and the hardware teams know the intricacies of their hardware better than anyone and they work in concert to design a better product. How long would it take the hypothetical Apple Hardware company to release products that the hypothetical Apple Software company wrote drivers for if they were split up? Could the new Apple hardware company say release the AirPods that paired seamlessly with multiple products just by pairing with one device signed into your account and release a new version of MacOS, iOS, TvOS, etc at the same time? Apple, Google and even AWS (in the server space) design hardware and processors in tandem with their software teams. They don’t just throw designs over the fence with documentation. > This situation is not unique to Apple, which is why we have shitty NVidia drivers in Linux, and why Android hardware support ends. That’s a poor excuse. The fact is that Google is just a shitty platform caretaker. Microsoft has the same business model where they make the OS and license it to OEMs yet they support hardware for years if not decades. Google doesn’t support its own phones as long as Apple. There is no excuse.

scarface_74 3y ago

Really? I have a silent fanless MacBook Air running an Apple designed chip, with an Apple written OS where I can move my cursor between it and my iPad sitting right besides it and my keyboard and mouse can control both seanlessly. It also gets 16 hours of battery life. And then I have a Windows laptop with piss poor battery life, sounds like a 747 at idle and runs hot enough that if I actually put it in my lap , it would endure that I don’t ever have any little Scarface’s On the phone side, the day that Apple releases a new version of iOS, it’s immediately available worldwide for every iPhone that was introduced in the last four years. Is the same true for Android devices?

spookie 3y ago
Colleagues of mine aren't able to use their Macs for work since they're unable to target the hardware we're working on. Perhaps with Asahi Linux they could. But even then, support isn't great.
midoridensha 3y ago
[dead]
thomastjeffery 3y ago
Apple would still be able to do all of that. The main reason Windows sucks is that Windows sucks. No specialized hardware can change that. The second reason is that hardware manufacturers make shitty drivers; because it shouldn't be their job in the first place. And why is OS X so good? They scrapped the original MacOS, and started fresh with a fork of BSD. None of that has anything to do with monopolizing hardware. It's also absurd to compare Apple's limited selection of exclusively flagship devices against every existing Android device. Compare them with their direct competition, and your point is moot. If Apple's hardware division was broken off into a separate company, Apple's software division would be able to do everything they do today as a customer of that hardware company. The only difference would be that everyone else could too.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  So none of the fact that my MacBook Air runs quiet and fast running Apple designed processors, using an Apple designed OS, and integrating with other Apple hardware has anything to do with Apple being integrated? And it shouldn’t be the company’s responsibility that made the hardware to make drivers and they should depend on who to do it then?
  - thomastjeffery 3y ago
    Whoever writes the OS is in a much better position to write drivers. This is the reason Linux drivers are (usually) very good. This is also why the current vertically integrated Apple is able to write good drivers: it isn't an isolated hardware manufacturer writing a driver. Because it's all one company, the OS team can be involved with driver development. The solution for everyone would be to simply publish the hardware spec such that Apple, Microsoft, and Linux devs are able to write their own drivers. The notion that hardware specs must be kept secret (because driver development is integrated with hardware development) is harming everyone, except the select few who have their own seats in the backroom. Vertical integration is creating the very problem that you see Apple solving with vertical integration. Unfortunately, Apple is solving it exclusively for Apple, while hanging everyone else out to dry. This situation is not unique to Apple, which is why we have shitty NVidia drivers in Linux, and why Android hardware support ends.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      > Whoever writes the OS is in a much better position to write drivers. This is the reason Linux drivers are (usually) very good. You really think that Linux developers would know how to squeeze better performance out of Nvidia hardware than the Nvidia even with the design specs? Nvidia has the foremost experts in designing GPUs and software around it (Cuda). The software and the hardware teams know the intricacies of their hardware better than anyone and they work in concert to design a better product. How long would it take the hypothetical Apple Hardware company to release products that the hypothetical Apple Software company wrote drivers for if they were split up? Could the new Apple hardware company say release the AirPods that paired seamlessly with multiple products just by pairing with one device signed into your account and release a new version of MacOS, iOS, TvOS, etc at the same time? Apple, Google and even AWS (in the server space) design hardware and processors in tandem with their software teams. They don’t just throw designs over the fence with documentation. > This situation is not unique to Apple, which is why we have shitty NVidia drivers in Linux, and why Android hardware support ends. That’s a poor excuse. The fact is that Google is just a shitty platform caretaker. Microsoft has the same business model where they make the OS and license it to OEMs yet they support hardware for years if not decades. Google doesn’t support its own phones as long as Apple. There is no excuse.