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The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines have been approved by the national health agencies of dozens of countries, and China has approved a very similar home grown mRNA

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines have been approved by the national health agencies of dozens of countries, and China has approved a very similar home grown mRNA Covid vaccine. No amount of money in the world could pay to do that and keep it secret.

fwungy 3y ago
Corrupt government officials get a commission on big contracts. It happens all the time. Why do you think people spend so much campaigning for low paying political offices? They can be quite lucrative investments. There are NDAs and other threats to shutdown whistleblowers.
- sarchertech 3y ago
  Think about how many people were involved in the approvals across the entire globe? Most of the approvals processes were conducted in public by career scientists and doctors. There were tens of thousands of people involved that would have to look the other way. Any company that’s capable of pulling off a global operation like that with absolutely zero exposure, is already running the world and doesn’t need to bother with piddly $40 billion scams.
  - fwungy 3y ago
    You don't become a career scientist or doctor by rocking the boat. A medical degree is a huge investment. Doctors have student loans and families. Anyone who sticks their neck out is at risk of losing their license or research grants.
    - Yoric 3y ago
      For context, in many countries outside of the US, you don't risk your student loan or your licence by rocking the boat, whether you're a physician or a researcher. In fact, if you're a researcher, chances are that rocking the boat is how you get exposure, which will improve your chances of a research grant. Bad science, on the other hand, is how you lose your reputation and your research grants.
    - educaysean 3y ago
      > Anyone who sticks their neck out is at risk of losing their license or research grants. Sticks their neck out against whom? Against the Afro-Chinese/Euroamerican consortium that took kickbacks from the "medical companies" in order to keep the COVID theatre going? Those poor honest doctors around the world - if only they could speak up! If only one doctor would tell the truth!
      - fwungy 3y ago
        Doctors depend on the free exchange of information to help their patients. It is one of the pathways that medicine advances. Covid was managed in a top down, hierarchical mode. Doctors who questioned it were threatened and punished by medical boards, some lost their licenses. Had a non-vaccine treatment for covid been discovered via clinical practice it would have destroyed the EUA for the covid vaccine, i.e. that's how they were able to issue an experimental vaccine widely to the public. An effective covid treatment would have cost the corporations billions of dollars in the present, and the ongoing subscription income of annual covid vaccinations for hundreds of millions of people. When you've got billions of income it's easy to spread it around to politicians, media, and scientists who are willing to carry the story. You just pay them well and make them sign NDAs: no one will talk. This forms a ready alliance to silence anyone who dares question the corporate narrative.
        sarchertech 3y ago
        Like most conspiracy theories, you've managed to construct a hypothesis that is impossible to disprove. My favorite part is how the western pharmaceutical companies were able to convince the CCP to suppress non-vaccine treatments. But that's as far as they could go. They weren't able to convince China to allow them to actually sell their vaccines there.
        fwungy 3y ago
        Like many corruption deniers you assume everyone is basically good and that the insiders don't rig the game, because... no reason given. A myriad of psychological experiments, e.g. Milgram, show that people are easily influenced to do unethical things if the incentives are set right and an acceptable rationalization is provided.
Izkata 3y ago
I don't know about the order/process elsewhere, by the time they were up for the approval process in the US there really wasn't another option simply because of the outcry after so many people had taken it, if it wasn't approved.
- sarchertech 3y ago
  As a counterpoint to that, 20 million people took the Johnson and Johnson vaccine under the emergency authorization, but the FDA didn’t approve it. Also buying the emergency approval process in the first place would have required an epically massive conspiracy.
  - HerculePoirot 3y ago
    eggs and bacon
  - fwungy 3y ago
    Not really. They do it all the time. Legislator votes for the right bills and her niece gets a cushy job somewhere in exchange. You can't prove anything wrong happened. It's a big club, and you ain't in it. - George Carlin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyvxt1svxso https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyvxt1svxso
loeg 3y ago
I’m not a vaccine conspiracy theorist but just as a counterpoint, Pfizer and then J&J have been selling completely ineffective Sudafed PE for more than a decade.
- sarchertech 3y ago
  Phenylephrine was approved in the 70s and classified as "Generally Recognized as Safe and Effective", which allowed companies to start selling it in pill form without going through the normal approval process as soon as Pseudoephedrine started requiring ID to purchase. Dozens of companies sold versions of this not just Pfizer and J&J. This isn't in any way comparable, because thousands of doctors and dozens of medical groups have been pointing out that it's not effective for years. There was no effort to "silence" any of them, and no requirement to pay off or even convince regulators and law makers to do anything in order to get it approved. It just took time for the wheels of regulatory momentum to do anything about it. If anything it shows what happens when a bad drug is approved or starts being sold. Thousands of doctors and dozens of reputable medical groups start speaking up--no global Pharma conspiracy can keep them from doing so.
  - loeg 3y ago
    Sure, I agree with all of that.

fwungy 3y ago

Corrupt government officials get a commission on big contracts. It happens all the time. Why do you think people spend so much campaigning for low paying political offices? They can be quite lucrative investments. There are NDAs and other threats to shutdown whistleblowers.

sarchertech 3y ago
Think about how many people were involved in the approvals across the entire globe? Most of the approvals processes were conducted in public by career scientists and doctors. There were tens of thousands of people involved that would have to look the other way. Any company that’s capable of pulling off a global operation like that with absolutely zero exposure, is already running the world and doesn’t need to bother with piddly $40 billion scams.
- fwungy 3y ago
  You don't become a career scientist or doctor by rocking the boat. A medical degree is a huge investment. Doctors have student loans and families. Anyone who sticks their neck out is at risk of losing their license or research grants.
  - Yoric 3y ago
    For context, in many countries outside of the US, you don't risk your student loan or your licence by rocking the boat, whether you're a physician or a researcher. In fact, if you're a researcher, chances are that rocking the boat is how you get exposure, which will improve your chances of a research grant. Bad science, on the other hand, is how you lose your reputation and your research grants.
  - educaysean 3y ago
    > Anyone who sticks their neck out is at risk of losing their license or research grants. Sticks their neck out against whom? Against the Afro-Chinese/Euroamerican consortium that took kickbacks from the "medical companies" in order to keep the COVID theatre going? Those poor honest doctors around the world - if only they could speak up! If only one doctor would tell the truth!
    - fwungy 3y ago
      Doctors depend on the free exchange of information to help their patients. It is one of the pathways that medicine advances. Covid was managed in a top down, hierarchical mode. Doctors who questioned it were threatened and punished by medical boards, some lost their licenses. Had a non-vaccine treatment for covid been discovered via clinical practice it would have destroyed the EUA for the covid vaccine, i.e. that's how they were able to issue an experimental vaccine widely to the public. An effective covid treatment would have cost the corporations billions of dollars in the present, and the ongoing subscription income of annual covid vaccinations for hundreds of millions of people. When you've got billions of income it's easy to spread it around to politicians, media, and scientists who are willing to carry the story. You just pay them well and make them sign NDAs: no one will talk. This forms a ready alliance to silence anyone who dares question the corporate narrative.
      - sarchertech 3y ago
        Like most conspiracy theories, you've managed to construct a hypothesis that is impossible to disprove. My favorite part is how the western pharmaceutical companies were able to convince the CCP to suppress non-vaccine treatments. But that's as far as they could go. They weren't able to convince China to allow them to actually sell their vaccines there.
        fwungy 3y ago
        Like many corruption deniers you assume everyone is basically good and that the insiders don't rig the game, because... no reason given. A myriad of psychological experiments, e.g. Milgram, show that people are easily influenced to do unethical things if the incentives are set right and an acceptable rationalization is provided.

Izkata 3y ago

I don't know about the order/process elsewhere, by the time they were up for the approval process in the US there really wasn't another option simply because of the outcry after so many people had taken it, if it wasn't approved.

sarchertech 3y ago
As a counterpoint to that, 20 million people took the Johnson and Johnson vaccine under the emergency authorization, but the FDA didn’t approve it. Also buying the emergency approval process in the first place would have required an epically massive conspiracy.
- HerculePoirot 3y ago
  eggs and bacon
- fwungy 3y ago
  Not really. They do it all the time. Legislator votes for the right bills and her niece gets a cushy job somewhere in exchange. You can't prove anything wrong happened. It's a big club, and you ain't in it. - George Carlin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyvxt1svxso https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyvxt1svxso

loeg 3y ago

I’m not a vaccine conspiracy theorist but just as a counterpoint, Pfizer and then J&J have been selling completely ineffective Sudafed PE for more than a decade.

sarchertech 3y ago
Phenylephrine was approved in the 70s and classified as "Generally Recognized as Safe and Effective", which allowed companies to start selling it in pill form without going through the normal approval process as soon as Pseudoephedrine started requiring ID to purchase. Dozens of companies sold versions of this not just Pfizer and J&J. This isn't in any way comparable, because thousands of doctors and dozens of medical groups have been pointing out that it's not effective for years. There was no effort to "silence" any of them, and no requirement to pay off or even convince regulators and law makers to do anything in order to get it approved. It just took time for the wheels of regulatory momentum to do anything about it. If anything it shows what happens when a bad drug is approved or starts being sold. Thousands of doctors and dozens of reputable medical groups start speaking up--no global Pharma conspiracy can keep them from doing so.
- loeg 3y ago
  Sure, I agree with all of that.