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I generally think any company with a >10 billion (2023 US) dollar valuation should be forced to do things that may not directly benefit them but benefit society

I generally think any company with a >10 billion (2023 US) dollar valuation should be forced to do things that may not directly benefit them but benefit society. Having to publish open specifications for all their proprietary integrations is a pretty easy, relatively low-cost example. How to make this work in practice is a really interesting question. Community and employee representatives on the board would be a good start. But I think just having the requirement that open specifications be made available, and writing that into legislation, would be great.

scarface_74 3y ago
Oh god, talking about design by committee. Why not just cut out the middle man and let the government take it over and come up with “5 year plans”
- howinteresting 3y ago
  If a company doesn't want at least some element of that, the solution is very simple: drop below a USD $10B valuation by spinning off parts of the company. Note that I said TEN BILLION DOLLARS. A "decacorn". That is an unfathomable amount of money. If you've created a company worth that much you've won at capitalism. If governments had a good track record I'd advocate for that. No need for strawmen like five year plans, I think competition is a wonderful thing. My underlying, strong belief is that corporations are legal fictions created primarily to benefit society, Milton Friedman's philosophy notwithstanding.
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    Your suggestion makes a ton of sense. It's astounding how many HN people are so hardcore capitalists to be against such a simple suggestion.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      It’s not hard core capitalism. It’s that geeks hate when people make their own choices without government interference because normal people don’t care that they can’t run Linux on the Apple Pencil. It’s also naiveté to think that government power isn’t the most dangerous kind of power imaginable even though almost every law proposed by the government with regards to tech is roundly criticized by the same people.
      - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        The suggestion was simply that companies that make more than 10 billion should be forced to give back to society. That's it. To be against that is indeed hard core capitalism, bordering on religious fervor.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        They do give back to society - they provide jobs, pay taxes, and mobile has created millions of jobs and put computers in billions of people’s pockets.
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        You very clearly miss the point, and indeed seem to be the type of hard core capitalist I alluded to in my previous comment.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        I’m hard core don’t trust giving the government more power. Corporations don’t have guns and the right to drag you to jail and take your stuff without a trial (civil forfeiture). You want to see what government can do with power - look no further than Desantis or this… https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2023/aug/20/police-newspaper-raid-kansas https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2023/aug/20/police-newspap... Or this https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-car-sign-woman-arrest-police-kate-fonseca-accusations-a8061356.html https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-polit...
- smoldesu 3y ago
  Design-by-committee doesn't sound half-bad if it can standardize a single serial cable that doesn't have licensing fees. Doesn't resemble an unreasonable use of government power at all.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    I don’t think that’s the argument you think it is. Thought experiment, grab a random USB C cable, now tell me: 1. What speed can you transfer data through it? 2. How much power can it deliver? 3. Can it support video over USB C? 4. Say a random device comes with a USB-A cable on one side and a USB-c on the other. Now take a standard usb c/usb c cable, will it always charge the device? Also when that same government first wanted to “standardize”. They wanted to standardize on micro-USB.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      > Thought experiment, grab a random USB C cable, now tell me Oh, easy. Apple already solved this one; if it has the Thunderbolt logo, it's maxed out. If it's anything else, you're usually getting at least 5w charging and USB 2.0 speeds. In other words, the worst-case scenario is usually slightly better than Lightning.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        It’s not that simple. A cable has to support video which is separate from the speed. So your solution to making sure that you get the most compatibility is to buy Apple cables for Apple devices…meet the new boss. I’m slightly trolling. I have these…. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093YVRHMB https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093YVRHMB I travel with a portable monitor that gets power and video from one USB-c cable. It works with both my personal MacBook Air and my work Windows laptop.
        smoldesu 3y ago
        > So your solution to making sure that you get the most compatibility is to buy Apple cables for Apple devices…meet the new boss. I was hoping you'd bite the hook, but not like this... Intel actually designed the spec, drivers and IC controllers for Thunderbolt. Apple consulted on it with USB-IF, but they don't own the spec like they do with Lightning. They're less of a new boss, and more subsuming their rightful position as a valued consultant on a shared standard. It's a good (albeit old) example of Apple doing the right thing through the right channels.

scarface_74 3y ago

Oh god, talking about design by committee. Why not just cut out the middle man and let the government take it over and come up with “5 year plans”

howinteresting 3y ago
If a company doesn't want at least some element of that, the solution is very simple: drop below a USD $10B valuation by spinning off parts of the company. Note that I said TEN BILLION DOLLARS. A "decacorn". That is an unfathomable amount of money. If you've created a company worth that much you've won at capitalism. If governments had a good track record I'd advocate for that. No need for strawmen like five year plans, I think competition is a wonderful thing. My underlying, strong belief is that corporations are legal fictions created primarily to benefit society, Milton Friedman's philosophy notwithstanding.
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  Your suggestion makes a ton of sense. It's astounding how many HN people are so hardcore capitalists to be against such a simple suggestion.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    It’s not hard core capitalism. It’s that geeks hate when people make their own choices without government interference because normal people don’t care that they can’t run Linux on the Apple Pencil. It’s also naiveté to think that government power isn’t the most dangerous kind of power imaginable even though almost every law proposed by the government with regards to tech is roundly criticized by the same people.
    - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
      The suggestion was simply that companies that make more than 10 billion should be forced to give back to society. That's it. To be against that is indeed hard core capitalism, bordering on religious fervor.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        They do give back to society - they provide jobs, pay taxes, and mobile has created millions of jobs and put computers in billions of people’s pockets.
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        You very clearly miss the point, and indeed seem to be the type of hard core capitalist I alluded to in my previous comment.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        I’m hard core don’t trust giving the government more power. Corporations don’t have guns and the right to drag you to jail and take your stuff without a trial (civil forfeiture). You want to see what government can do with power - look no further than Desantis or this… https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2023/aug/20/police-newspaper-raid-kansas https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2023/aug/20/police-newspap... Or this https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-car-sign-woman-arrest-police-kate-fonseca-accusations-a8061356.html https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-polit...
smoldesu 3y ago
Design-by-committee doesn't sound half-bad if it can standardize a single serial cable that doesn't have licensing fees. Doesn't resemble an unreasonable use of government power at all.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  I don’t think that’s the argument you think it is. Thought experiment, grab a random USB C cable, now tell me: 1. What speed can you transfer data through it? 2. How much power can it deliver? 3. Can it support video over USB C? 4. Say a random device comes with a USB-A cable on one side and a USB-c on the other. Now take a standard usb c/usb c cable, will it always charge the device? Also when that same government first wanted to “standardize”. They wanted to standardize on micro-USB.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    > Thought experiment, grab a random USB C cable, now tell me Oh, easy. Apple already solved this one; if it has the Thunderbolt logo, it's maxed out. If it's anything else, you're usually getting at least 5w charging and USB 2.0 speeds. In other words, the worst-case scenario is usually slightly better than Lightning.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      It’s not that simple. A cable has to support video which is separate from the speed. So your solution to making sure that you get the most compatibility is to buy Apple cables for Apple devices…meet the new boss. I’m slightly trolling. I have these…. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093YVRHMB https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093YVRHMB I travel with a portable monitor that gets power and video from one USB-c cable. It works with both my personal MacBook Air and my work Windows laptop.
      - smoldesu 3y ago
        > So your solution to making sure that you get the most compatibility is to buy Apple cables for Apple devices…meet the new boss. I was hoping you'd bite the hook, but not like this... Intel actually designed the spec, drivers and IC controllers for Thunderbolt. Apple consulted on it with USB-IF, but they don't own the spec like they do with Lightning. They're less of a new boss, and more subsuming their rightful position as a valued consultant on a shared standard. It's a good (albeit old) example of Apple doing the right thing through the right channels.