3 ms·

Seems like it from a couple studies, for example: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969722008774 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/arti

Seems like it from a couple studies, for example: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969722008774 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896972.... Vehicle weight is also a significant factor, so EVs will make this particular problem worse. Still worth the tradeoff, but obviously not using a car at all is the best option.

Etheryte 3y ago
Are you sure about the tradeoff bit? If my memory doesn't fail me, there was an article on HN recently that covered how EVs are environmentally more friendly, but health wise worse exactly because they generate more tire particles.
- burkaman 3y ago
  I'd be interested to see it, that's not an obvious conclusion to me. The health difference of an EV is a percentage increase in tire particles but a complete absence of tailpipe emissions. I would not expect tire particles to be the more significant factor, especially when the impacts of microplastics are so unknown. Tailpipe emissions are a significant problem (https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab35fc https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab35fc), and I know this is an extreme example but you can literally kill yourself by just leaving a car running in an enclosed space. EV tailpipe emissions are not fully replaced by electricity generation emissions, even if you get your power from 100% coal (and you don't). Power plants are much more efficient than internal combustion engines.
  - Etheryte 3y ago
    I believe this [0] is the article (with discussion at [1]). To cherry-pick two quotes to contextualize what I recalled: > "Tires release 100 times the amount of volatile organic compounds as a modern tailpipe, says an analyst." > "Moreover, tire emissions from electric vehicles are 20 percent higher than those from fossil-fuel vehicles. EVs weigh more and have greater torque, which wears out tires faster." I'm not sure how all of this works out in the grand scheme of things, or how accurate those claims are, but I think those are issues that surely deserve more looking into. [0] https://e360.yale.edu/features/tire-pollution-toxic-chemicals https://e360.yale.edu/features/tire-pollution-toxic-chemical... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37569137 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37569137
    - burkaman 3y ago
      Thanks, yeah this is pretty depressing. Feels almost unsolvable, I love public transit but I don't know how to make everyone else love it. Maybe we'll invent some perfect biodegradable tire, but it feels more likely that we'll just wall ourselves off and people (who can afford it) will drink filtered water and eat lab-grown meat and hydroponic produce to avoid ingesting their own pollution.
      - kortex 3y ago
        > I love public transit but I don't know how to make everyone else love it By solving the following problems: - Waiting in the bitter cold / snow, or baking in the sun - Allow me to transport medium/large size dogs (most restrict animals to being in crates that can fit on a lap), without being a bother to other riders (good luck) - Reasonable wait times. Even better, do it regardless of time of day I love my car. I've been in public transit in 5 states and 5 countries, and I'm always whelmed at best. It suffices on a good day.
- Kirby64 3y ago
  I'd like to see if that included brake particulates. My understanding is brake particulates is a large contributor to the mix of 'unhealthy ultra-fine dust' from cars. Most EVs should bring down the brake dust to almost zero, since the vast majority of braking is done via regenerative braking.

Etheryte 3y ago

Are you sure about the tradeoff bit? If my memory doesn't fail me, there was an article on HN recently that covered how EVs are environmentally more friendly, but health wise worse exactly because they generate more tire particles.

burkaman 3y ago
I'd be interested to see it, that's not an obvious conclusion to me. The health difference of an EV is a percentage increase in tire particles but a complete absence of tailpipe emissions. I would not expect tire particles to be the more significant factor, especially when the impacts of microplastics are so unknown. Tailpipe emissions are a significant problem (https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab35fc https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab35fc), and I know this is an extreme example but you can literally kill yourself by just leaving a car running in an enclosed space. EV tailpipe emissions are not fully replaced by electricity generation emissions, even if you get your power from 100% coal (and you don't). Power plants are much more efficient than internal combustion engines.
- Etheryte 3y ago
  I believe this [0] is the article (with discussion at [1]). To cherry-pick two quotes to contextualize what I recalled: > "Tires release 100 times the amount of volatile organic compounds as a modern tailpipe, says an analyst." > "Moreover, tire emissions from electric vehicles are 20 percent higher than those from fossil-fuel vehicles. EVs weigh more and have greater torque, which wears out tires faster." I'm not sure how all of this works out in the grand scheme of things, or how accurate those claims are, but I think those are issues that surely deserve more looking into. [0] https://e360.yale.edu/features/tire-pollution-toxic-chemicals https://e360.yale.edu/features/tire-pollution-toxic-chemical... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37569137 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37569137
  - burkaman 3y ago
    Thanks, yeah this is pretty depressing. Feels almost unsolvable, I love public transit but I don't know how to make everyone else love it. Maybe we'll invent some perfect biodegradable tire, but it feels more likely that we'll just wall ourselves off and people (who can afford it) will drink filtered water and eat lab-grown meat and hydroponic produce to avoid ingesting their own pollution.
    - kortex 3y ago
      > I love public transit but I don't know how to make everyone else love it By solving the following problems: - Waiting in the bitter cold / snow, or baking in the sun - Allow me to transport medium/large size dogs (most restrict animals to being in crates that can fit on a lap), without being a bother to other riders (good luck) - Reasonable wait times. Even better, do it regardless of time of day I love my car. I've been in public transit in 5 states and 5 countries, and I'm always whelmed at best. It suffices on a good day.
Kirby64 3y ago
I'd like to see if that included brake particulates. My understanding is brake particulates is a large contributor to the mix of 'unhealthy ultra-fine dust' from cars. Most EVs should bring down the brake dust to almost zero, since the vast majority of braking is done via regenerative braking.