5 ms·

Food is significantly cheaper as is rent. Westerners are unlikely to want to live there because they've never even visited it so that's not an argument against

Food is significantly cheaper as is rent. Westerners are unlikely to want to live there because they've never even visited it so that's not an argument against. The Balkans is sunny, taxes are low. I'd take that any day over subzero Northern Germany. 40-50$ per person in a restaurant is a flat out lie so I'm not gonna even bother with that. According to you it's much better to live in a 2m^2 apartment in Paris than in Balkans. I'd take the Balkans any day.

qwytw 3y ago
> Food is significantly cheaper Only when eating out (if you're comparing to Northern Germany).
- coolThingsFirst 3y ago
  That's interesting, I didn't know that. How much is the rent for a studio in Northern Germany?
  - tannhaeuser 3y ago
    Impossible to tell without further qualification. Hamburg (Germany's second largest city after Berlin) is expensive though still cheaper than Munich, other cities with universities such as Bremen, Kiel, etc. aren't cheap but bearable, countryside places are relatively cheap, seaside places OTOH can be expensive or outright unaffordable (Sylt and other North Sea islands/places), remote places in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern can be really cheap but not around Schwerin and at places near Hamburg. Also, energy costs need to be considered. And Munich is not a shithole but a fantastic place to stay at in the summer - less so in winter unless you can go skiing in nearby Alps IME and especially not during Oktoberfest.
random_kris 3y ago
The 40-50$ is not a lie. A good quality meal with some wine and dessert will cost you +40$ for sure
badpun 3y ago
> The Balkans is sunny, taxes are low. I'd take that any day over subzero Northern Germany. Isn't the weather still not great during the winter months? I don't care if it's 0 C or +8 C, both make me not want to go out.
- coolThingsFirst 3y ago
  If you like sun it is, we get tons of sun.
- angra_mainyu 3y ago
  The Croatian coast doesn't get too cold (usually).
paganel 3y ago
> 40-50$ per person in a restaurant is a flat out lie so I'm not gonna even bother with that. Unfortunately things here in Bucharest are pretty much getting there, maybe not in the range of 40-50$ per person but most definitely in the 35-40$ range, and I'm talking a regular restaurant. Before the pandemic I'd say that that price was in the 20-25$ range. Though I can see how prices in cities like Belgrade, Sofia or Skopje might still be lower, as even Athens is now cheaper than Bucharest when it comes to eating out (I've experienced that myself recently), in which case enjoy it while it still lasts.
- ebalit 3y ago
  That's more expensive than Paris. Well it depends the type of restaurant of course. Would you have some examples in Bucharest?
  - paganel 3y ago
    A mom-and-pop German restaurant near me [1] where for Bavarian Weisswurst, a cabbage salad, some "peasant potatoes" (I don't know the official name) and a non-filtered beer I paid about 30 euros when I went there about a month ago. Had I also ordered a soup, or a second bear, I could have easily gone into the 35-40 euros range. [1] I highly recommend it, it's the real deal when it comes to eating honest German food in Bucharest https://www.google.com/maps/place/Die+Deutsche+Kneipe/@44.4537571,26.0969914,105m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x40b1f8abf3a1d0af:0x729144587d46e107!8m2!3d44.4539826!4d26.0970127!16s%2Fg%2F1hc4dx8ky?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/place/Die+Deutsche+Kneipe/@44.45...
    - tannhaeuser 3y ago
      > Had I also ordered [...] a second bear Hopefully they have doggy bags?
      - paganel 3y ago
        I'll leave it like that :) I had them in mind when I made the comment because I had just learned earlier that day that Japan had bears, that was a surprise to me. Plus, bears are cool, beer, too (if drunk responsibly).
angra_mainyu 3y ago
Basically this. The price of a shitty room in a coloc (not even in paris) gets you an actual 2/3 bedroom apartment. Taxes are, as you say, very low in comparison. The usual min wage + dividends can get you an effective tax rate of about 9% (depending on the country).

qwytw 3y ago

> Food is significantly cheaper Only when eating out (if you're comparing to Northern Germany).

coolThingsFirst 3y ago
That's interesting, I didn't know that. How much is the rent for a studio in Northern Germany?
- tannhaeuser 3y ago
  Impossible to tell without further qualification. Hamburg (Germany's second largest city after Berlin) is expensive though still cheaper than Munich, other cities with universities such as Bremen, Kiel, etc. aren't cheap but bearable, countryside places are relatively cheap, seaside places OTOH can be expensive or outright unaffordable (Sylt and other North Sea islands/places), remote places in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern can be really cheap but not around Schwerin and at places near Hamburg. Also, energy costs need to be considered. And Munich is not a shithole but a fantastic place to stay at in the summer - less so in winter unless you can go skiing in nearby Alps IME and especially not during Oktoberfest.

random_kris 3y ago

The 40-50$ is not a lie. A good quality meal with some wine and dessert will cost you +40$ for sure

badpun 3y ago

> The Balkans is sunny, taxes are low. I'd take that any day over subzero Northern Germany. Isn't the weather still not great during the winter months? I don't care if it's 0 C or +8 C, both make me not want to go out.

coolThingsFirst 3y ago
If you like sun it is, we get tons of sun.
angra_mainyu 3y ago
The Croatian coast doesn't get too cold (usually).

paganel 3y ago

> 40-50$ per person in a restaurant is a flat out lie so I'm not gonna even bother with that. Unfortunately things here in Bucharest are pretty much getting there, maybe not in the range of 40-50$ per person but most definitely in the 35-40$ range, and I'm talking a regular restaurant. Before the pandemic I'd say that that price was in the 20-25$ range. Though I can see how prices in cities like Belgrade, Sofia or Skopje might still be lower, as even Athens is now cheaper than Bucharest when it comes to eating out (I've experienced that myself recently), in which case enjoy it while it still lasts.

ebalit 3y ago
That's more expensive than Paris. Well it depends the type of restaurant of course. Would you have some examples in Bucharest?
- paganel 3y ago
  A mom-and-pop German restaurant near me [1] where for Bavarian Weisswurst, a cabbage salad, some "peasant potatoes" (I don't know the official name) and a non-filtered beer I paid about 30 euros when I went there about a month ago. Had I also ordered a soup, or a second bear, I could have easily gone into the 35-40 euros range. [1] I highly recommend it, it's the real deal when it comes to eating honest German food in Bucharest https://www.google.com/maps/place/Die+Deutsche+Kneipe/@44.4537571,26.0969914,105m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x40b1f8abf3a1d0af:0x729144587d46e107!8m2!3d44.4539826!4d26.0970127!16s%2Fg%2F1hc4dx8ky?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/place/Die+Deutsche+Kneipe/@44.45...
  - tannhaeuser 3y ago
    > Had I also ordered [...] a second bear Hopefully they have doggy bags?
    - paganel 3y ago
      I'll leave it like that :) I had them in mind when I made the comment because I had just learned earlier that day that Japan had bears, that was a surprise to me. Plus, bears are cool, beer, too (if drunk responsibly).

angra_mainyu 3y ago

Basically this. The price of a shitty room in a coloc (not even in paris) gets you an actual 2/3 bedroom apartment. Taxes are, as you say, very low in comparison. The usual min wage + dividends can get you an effective tax rate of about 9% (depending on the country).