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As a bit of a pickle enthusiast, I must object to the idea that it is "vegetables in vinegar and not a lot else". I was looking at making various Japanese pick

As a bit of a pickle enthusiast, I must object to the idea that it is "vegetables in vinegar and not a lot else". I was looking at making various Japanese pickles last year and rice bran with miso is a very common dry pickling bed; salt pickles are far more common than vinegar pickles (the recipe book I looked at had about ¼ of its pickles with some sort of vinegar, usually a rice vinegar). Even vinegar-based Western pickles are far more interesting than "just vinegar", because most pickles have herbs and spices (pickled dill cucumbers have dill, garlic, and often mustard seed or coriander, sometimes chilli flakes). Also fairly common in Western pickles are wine pickles (not for cucumbers; sometimes used to finish the aging of sauerkraut) or salt pickles (preserved lemon, most sauerkrauts, the better pickled dill cucumbers). And then you get the interesting pickles like Branston Pickle (more accurately called a chutney made with pickled vegetables, but…). I also buy quite a few oil-pickled products from Italy; I suspect that many Mediterranean cultures use oil pickling over vinegar pickling. (Although the production methods for most of these would start with brining — salt pickling — they would be dried and the curing would be finished in the oil that they ship in.)

OJFord 3y ago
> As a bit of a pickle enthusiast, I must object to the idea that it is "vegetables in vinegar and not a lot else". I was looking at making various Japanese pickles [...] To be clear I said 'most' and I meant only to be talking about what's prevalent in the UK, but I appreciate that wasn't clear in that paragraph (I only said 'non-Indian/inspired'). But anyway it was only to pander to 'sure you [the other commenter] might be thinking a pickle means a different looking thing', when my whole point was yes I agree it's a pickle, I'm absolutely not saying a pickle needs to be only vinegar and vegetable, or very liquidy, or really anything more strict than just that it be anaerobically fermented. (I'd far sooner/do exclude 'quick pickle', 'fridge pickle', et al. than achar!) Since you mention 'oil-pickled products from Italy', a Delia-inspired favourite of mine is what she calls 'gardeners pickle' (pickles giardiniere) - the gist is roughly chopped vegetables (I think she includes mushrooms, fennel, onions, courgettes, aubergine, peppers, and tomato) in oil, vinegar, and salt. My frequently make it with just courgette and onion, perhaps plus cherry tomato - unfortunate bulk, with a piercing to allow the vinegar to penetrate they really are delicious! I eat it mostly on fresh bread with vintage cheddar (that's very mature, salty, I'm not sure it's available like that in the US - cheddar on the whole is not the same, and 'sharp' is not it) but it's also excellent as an addition to gazpacho - it's basically the same thing unblended after all.

OJFord 3y ago

> As a bit of a pickle enthusiast, I must object to the idea that it is "vegetables in vinegar and not a lot else". I was looking at making various Japanese pickles [...] To be clear I said 'most' and I meant only to be talking about what's prevalent in the UK, but I appreciate that wasn't clear in that paragraph (I only said 'non-Indian/inspired'). But anyway it was only to pander to 'sure you [the other commenter] might be thinking a pickle means a different looking thing', when my whole point was yes I agree it's a pickle, I'm absolutely not saying a pickle needs to be only vinegar and vegetable, or very liquidy, or really anything more strict than just that it be anaerobically fermented. (I'd far sooner/do exclude 'quick pickle', 'fridge pickle', et al. than achar!) Since you mention 'oil-pickled products from Italy', a Delia-inspired favourite of mine is what she calls 'gardeners pickle' (pickles giardiniere) - the gist is roughly chopped vegetables (I think she includes mushrooms, fennel, onions, courgettes, aubergine, peppers, and tomato) in oil, vinegar, and salt. My frequently make it with just courgette and onion, perhaps plus cherry tomato - unfortunate bulk, with a piercing to allow the vinegar to penetrate they really are delicious! I eat it mostly on fresh bread with vintage cheddar (that's very mature, salty, I'm not sure it's available like that in the US - cheddar on the whole is not the same, and 'sharp' is not it) but it's also excellent as an addition to gazpacho - it's basically the same thing unblended after all.