7 ms·

Bruno – Opensource, sustainability, privacy, freedom and incentives

82 points by ushakov 3y ago

thuringia 3y ago
How is Bruno different from using REST-Client or similar tools? Looks like it can’t handle RAML or OpenAPI so it can only be an additional tool, never the primary one. I really like what they are doing, especially with the CLI client but it’s not really an API documentation. The documentation feature in Postman was very nice, as OpenAPI is not powerful enough here
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
markcollin 3y ago
Interesting. glad to see the transparency. oss monetization is really hard. sadly, most dev's don't pay for dev tooling. really liking Bruno so far. Also I don't think a gui client would need vc funding. The pressure to show returns is what turns them to bloatware and saas. I would pay for supporter edition if they go that route. tired of switching tools every 2 years.
- ushakov 3y ago
  There is no pressure if you don’t need much money and get it from right people, who know the deal upfront
  - brokensoul98 3y ago
    [dead]
  - markcollin 3y ago
    Like? If I understand you raise outside only if you plan to scale and give a great return; otherwise it is better to bootstrap right?
    - ushakov 3y ago
      Incorrect. At early stage, the funding is primarily so that the team can pay themselves a salary. They don’t expect any returns at that point. Most (96%) of the VC-funded startups do not make more than $1m revenue. Bootstrapping is in my opinion much worse, because you put your own capital at risk Source: https://venturebeat.com/entrepreneur/getting-to-50-million-how-to-avoid-the-saas-valley-of-death/ https://venturebeat.com/entrepreneur/getting-to-50-million-h...
- helloanoop 3y ago
  Thanks for your vote of confidence!
typosaur 3y ago
Sadly, the problem I see with Bruno is that users migrating from competition are actually low-value targets and would never pay for anything. Regardless with what happened to Postman and Insomnia, they didn't loose any significant market share (again, only a certain minority, which would never pay anyways). Most of the people will just accept the new conditions and go on. It's not worth the hassle for them to migrate Good luck!
- markcollin 3y ago
  that rings true. and devs dont usually pay for dev tools. the only way I see them having any success is if they gain significant market adoption however I applaud the effort trying to innovate in the saturated field. Almost every alternative on that list except thunder client is vc funded. I still can't wrap my head around postmans 5.6b val lol
  - Zetobal 3y ago
    It's convenience and nothing else that's all these tools have going for them. It's just to catch lazy bastards out who based their whole workflow on it. It's the scummiest way to do business and everyone associated with it gets on my private "Don't do business with"-list.
  - djbusby 3y ago
    Well, when they become/are the major player (close to monopoly) and then can ratchet up some enterprise crap, then do the 10% per year squeeze - well, that's what VCs believe in (and buy). A 10x multiple means they "only" need $500M TTM to justify to the next mark. And, these big valuation help with the IPO, loads of folk love to buy hyped up IPO.
j1elo 3y ago
Small typo: Corportate -> Corporate
- helloanoop 3y ago
  Thanks. Fixed!
madduci 3y ago
I appreciate there's a new tool in the block, but I still don't understand why none put JMeter as a competitor in this list. I was using Postman myself and I got really upset about their change and forced limitations, on the other hand I understand their needs to charge people for monetisation. The most upsetting thing about Postman was the impossibility to use multiple client certificates for TLS authentication, but only one for domain. Although JMeter isn't as pleasant as the other tools are, speaking of UI, it is capable of supporting multiple protocols and there are no limitations in using TLS certificates or checks.
twen_ty 3y ago
That VC funding table is everything that's absurdly wrong with VC money. How TF is Postman worth $434M at $5.6B valuation?
- markcollin 3y ago
  To put things into perspective MS bought "GitHub" (which has a monopoly on oss hosting) in 2018 for 7.5b and Postman (a gui client) is at 5.6b. mind-bogglingly insane. I'd love to be enlightened on why is postman valued so much. what is d endgame here?
  - helloanoop 3y ago
    I think the core reason is their monopoly and having over 20 million developers using their tool, and the hope that they can monetize this in future. But yes $5.6b is nuts.
  - popcorncowboy 3y ago
    Although, it's "5.6" not 5.6. That 5.6 is a bag holder number. MS put 7.5B real dollars on the table. The VCs putting cash into postman at "5.6" are using heavy breathing and hand waving to explain the potential LTV of (apparently) 20m devs to the greater fool.
    - ericjmorey 3y ago
      5.6 is the break even number for the VC fund. And given the the interest rate environment and the time horizon of realizing a return, 5.6 would be an embarrassing loss for the VC fund.
__natty__ 3y ago
I like the simplicity of Bruno and that the author is aware why devs liked the Postman and Insomnia. I will wait however until it will mature a little more as my huge project in Insomnia can’t be imported (I guess because I left empty names to see directly URLs and Bruno doesn’t allow that).
- brokensoul98 3y ago
  [dead]
- helloanoop 3y ago
  Hi there! This is Anoop. Glad that you like Bruno. On the import issue you mentioned, its due to the architecture choice of Bruno where every request is stored on the filesystem as a file. I don't have a solution in mind, perhaps the a reasonable approach is to fallback to "Untitled" at the time of import.
helloanoop 3y ago
This was my first article that got to front page on HN! Thank you @ushakov for posting this.
- ericjmorey 3y ago
  Why did you choose the MIT license?
- 3np 3y ago
  Hey, if you don't mind some unpredictable donation/sponsoring, you could put up a bitcoin address (and optionally XMR and/or ETH, though those latter two may be a bit more friction for you if you're not already familiar).
woliveirajr 3y ago
We don't talk about Bruno, no no....
- markcollin 3y ago
  We don't talk about Bruno ;)
jslakro 3y ago
I miss the times when a piece of software, private or FOSS offered a stable version by months or years, now a project with months without an update is considered abandoned. I think all transient nature present in current society is easily found in software as well. An articial layer of constant and active maintenance is expected from any tool out there
- helloanoop 3y ago
  We need to align incentives better. It's really hard to do this in opensource. I hope Bruno can do that. I penned some thoughts here: https://github.com/usebruno/bruno/discussions/269 https://github.com/usebruno/bruno/discussions/269

82 points by ushakov 3y ago

How is Bruno different from using REST-Client or similar tools? Looks like it can’t handle RAML or OpenAPI so it can only be an additional tool, never the primary one. I really like what they are doing, especially with the CLI client but it’s not really an API documentation. The documentation feature in Postman was very nice, as OpenAPI is not powerful enough here

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

markcollin 3y ago

Interesting. glad to see the transparency. oss monetization is really hard. sadly, most dev's don't pay for dev tooling. really liking Bruno so far. Also I don't think a gui client would need vc funding. The pressure to show returns is what turns them to bloatware and saas. I would pay for supporter edition if they go that route. tired of switching tools every 2 years.

ushakov 3y ago
There is no pressure if you don’t need much money and get it from right people, who know the deal upfront
- brokensoul98 3y ago
  [dead]
- markcollin 3y ago
  Like? If I understand you raise outside only if you plan to scale and give a great return; otherwise it is better to bootstrap right?
  - ushakov 3y ago
    Incorrect. At early stage, the funding is primarily so that the team can pay themselves a salary. They don’t expect any returns at that point. Most (96%) of the VC-funded startups do not make more than $1m revenue. Bootstrapping is in my opinion much worse, because you put your own capital at risk Source: https://venturebeat.com/entrepreneur/getting-to-50-million-how-to-avoid-the-saas-valley-of-death/ https://venturebeat.com/entrepreneur/getting-to-50-million-h...
helloanoop 3y ago
Thanks for your vote of confidence!

typosaur 3y ago

Sadly, the problem I see with Bruno is that users migrating from competition are actually low-value targets and would never pay for anything. Regardless with what happened to Postman and Insomnia, they didn't loose any significant market share (again, only a certain minority, which would never pay anyways). Most of the people will just accept the new conditions and go on. It's not worth the hassle for them to migrate Good luck!

markcollin 3y ago
that rings true. and devs dont usually pay for dev tools. the only way I see them having any success is if they gain significant market adoption however I applaud the effort trying to innovate in the saturated field. Almost every alternative on that list except thunder client is vc funded. I still can't wrap my head around postmans 5.6b val lol
- Zetobal 3y ago
  It's convenience and nothing else that's all these tools have going for them. It's just to catch lazy bastards out who based their whole workflow on it. It's the scummiest way to do business and everyone associated with it gets on my private "Don't do business with"-list.
- djbusby 3y ago
  Well, when they become/are the major player (close to monopoly) and then can ratchet up some enterprise crap, then do the 10% per year squeeze - well, that's what VCs believe in (and buy). A 10x multiple means they "only" need $500M TTM to justify to the next mark. And, these big valuation help with the IPO, loads of folk love to buy hyped up IPO.

j1elo 3y ago

Small typo: Corportate -> Corporate

helloanoop 3y ago
Thanks. Fixed!

madduci 3y ago

I appreciate there's a new tool in the block, but I still don't understand why none put JMeter as a competitor in this list. I was using Postman myself and I got really upset about their change and forced limitations, on the other hand I understand their needs to charge people for monetisation. The most upsetting thing about Postman was the impossibility to use multiple client certificates for TLS authentication, but only one for domain. Although JMeter isn't as pleasant as the other tools are, speaking of UI, it is capable of supporting multiple protocols and there are no limitations in using TLS certificates or checks.

twen_ty 3y ago

That VC funding table is everything that's absurdly wrong with VC money. How TF is Postman worth $434M at $5.6B valuation?

markcollin 3y ago
To put things into perspective MS bought "GitHub" (which has a monopoly on oss hosting) in 2018 for 7.5b and Postman (a gui client) is at 5.6b. mind-bogglingly insane. I'd love to be enlightened on why is postman valued so much. what is d endgame here?
- helloanoop 3y ago
  I think the core reason is their monopoly and having over 20 million developers using their tool, and the hope that they can monetize this in future. But yes $5.6b is nuts.
- popcorncowboy 3y ago
  Although, it's "5.6" not 5.6. That 5.6 is a bag holder number. MS put 7.5B real dollars on the table. The VCs putting cash into postman at "5.6" are using heavy breathing and hand waving to explain the potential LTV of (apparently) 20m devs to the greater fool.
  - ericjmorey 3y ago
    5.6 is the break even number for the VC fund. And given the the interest rate environment and the time horizon of realizing a return, 5.6 would be an embarrassing loss for the VC fund.

__natty__ 3y ago

I like the simplicity of Bruno and that the author is aware why devs liked the Postman and Insomnia. I will wait however until it will mature a little more as my huge project in Insomnia can’t be imported (I guess because I left empty names to see directly URLs and Bruno doesn’t allow that).

brokensoul98 3y ago
[dead]
helloanoop 3y ago
Hi there! This is Anoop. Glad that you like Bruno. On the import issue you mentioned, its due to the architecture choice of Bruno where every request is stored on the filesystem as a file. I don't have a solution in mind, perhaps the a reasonable approach is to fallback to "Untitled" at the time of import.

helloanoop 3y ago

This was my first article that got to front page on HN! Thank you @ushakov for posting this.

ericjmorey 3y ago
Why did you choose the MIT license?
3np 3y ago
Hey, if you don't mind some unpredictable donation/sponsoring, you could put up a bitcoin address (and optionally XMR and/or ETH, though those latter two may be a bit more friction for you if you're not already familiar).

woliveirajr 3y ago

We don't talk about Bruno, no no....

markcollin 3y ago
We don't talk about Bruno ;)

jslakro 3y ago

I miss the times when a piece of software, private or FOSS offered a stable version by months or years, now a project with months without an update is considered abandoned. I think all transient nature present in current society is easily found in software as well. An articial layer of constant and active maintenance is expected from any tool out there

helloanoop 3y ago
We need to align incentives better. It's really hard to do this in opensource. I hope Bruno can do that. I penned some thoughts here: https://github.com/usebruno/bruno/discussions/269 https://github.com/usebruno/bruno/discussions/269