3 ms·

Well, most classical songs are very well compressible, because not much is going on. Punk Rock or any other music were a lot is happening, at the same time, can

Well, most classical songs are very well compressible, because not much is going on. Punk Rock or any other music were a lot is happening, at the same time, can suffer very audible from 128 kbit lossy compression. So you can hear lossy compression better in a loud pop song than other music.

esquivalience 3y ago
I don't agree with this from my own experience. To me, classical music at high compression suffers far worse than modern bands.
- colejohnson66 3y ago
  My unscientific guess would be that classical music might have wider dynamic range than “normal” music. So the same compression amount affects the one with more range first (classical).
  - nuancebydefault 3y ago
    Higher dynamic range and typically also more 'pure'. The introduced compression artifacts stand out more in simpler waveforms than in wavevorms that are an addition of many more layers of sound.
  - thefilmore 3y ago
    Your guess would be correct [1]. Some samples [2]. [1] https://www.mdpi.com/2624-599X/4/3/42 https://www.mdpi.com/2624-599X/4/3/42 [2] http://www.harmjschoonhoven.com/mp3-quality.html http://www.harmjschoonhoven.com/mp3-quality.html
munchler 3y ago
A typical classical symphony requires 50-80 instruments, several dozen of which might play at the same time, while a typical punk song has maybe four.
- vel0city 3y ago
  Compression algorithms don't care about instrument counts, they care about the complexity of the signal. So there being a total of maybe hundreds of instruments doesn't matter, it's only about how many are playing at any given time. There might be a few dozen instruments playing at any given moment in a classical recording, but they're all highly tuned instruments with several of each one playing just about the exact same note. Grungy rock music might only have a few instruments, but they're often purposefully highly distorted and have people pretty much screaming and shouting, leading to the actual sinal being closer to literally noise. So the closer you are to literally noise, the less compressible your signal is. Imagine a an image with a dozen sharp, clear, colorful squares. Now imagine a similar resolution image with only 5 colors, but they're different shapes and they're kind of fuzzy and they're really more like gradients instead of a pure color. Which is going to compress easier?
  - munchler 3y ago
    This is an interesting argument, but not convincing. You are essentially claiming that the information content of a classical recording is low, and could be replicated with fewer, simpler instruments. However, I suspect that many of the interesting subtleties that make a recording sound “beautiful” would be lost that way. Surely such nuances are why classical musicians are so passionate about their instruments. (FWIW, I’m way more of a punk fan myself, and usually find most classical music pretty boring.)
    - vel0city 3y ago
      > You are essentially claiming that the information content of a classical recording is low, and could be replicated with fewer, simpler instruments. No, I do agree having multiple instruments does lead to a wider sound than just a single one. Plus multiple instruments will probably help balance out a single one being out of tune or not quite hitting the note right. But still, these instruments usually are way more tuned to produce closer to pure tones and their harmonic overtones than a guitar going through half a dozen different distortion and effect pedals then through a compressor along with a guy screaming all over the place into a microphone. Also, when strumming a guitar you're almost always playing essentially six strings at once, playing a whole chord with only one instrument. Meanwhile on a flute or a trumpet or a clarinet or a violin a single player is only playing a single note at a time, a single string of the guitar. So during strumming sections a guitar is almost like 6 instruments, in terms of signal complexity. So a rhythm guitar strumming and a lead guitar picking strings is really almost like 7 instruments played by two people compared to many orchestral instruments. Just look at these two spectrograms. Look at the rock song where there's a lot of distorted guitar, bass, drums, and singing going on and compare that to an active part of the classical recording. See how the classical recording has a lot more clean, straight lines while the rock song is a lot more fuzzy? Imagine if these were images, which would be more complicated to accurately compress? That's not really a great analogy, but it is touching on the same concept. Rock song: https://youtu.be/BVsp23B8dWo?t=62 https://youtu.be/BVsp23B8dWo?t=62 Classical song: https://youtu.be/Txp-pHU2K6w?t=210 https://youtu.be/Txp-pHU2K6w?t=210

esquivalience 3y ago

I don't agree with this from my own experience. To me, classical music at high compression suffers far worse than modern bands.

colejohnson66 3y ago
My unscientific guess would be that classical music might have wider dynamic range than “normal” music. So the same compression amount affects the one with more range first (classical).
- nuancebydefault 3y ago
  Higher dynamic range and typically also more 'pure'. The introduced compression artifacts stand out more in simpler waveforms than in wavevorms that are an addition of many more layers of sound.
- thefilmore 3y ago
  Your guess would be correct [1]. Some samples [2]. [1] https://www.mdpi.com/2624-599X/4/3/42 https://www.mdpi.com/2624-599X/4/3/42 [2] http://www.harmjschoonhoven.com/mp3-quality.html http://www.harmjschoonhoven.com/mp3-quality.html

munchler 3y ago

A typical classical symphony requires 50-80 instruments, several dozen of which might play at the same time, while a typical punk song has maybe four.

vel0city 3y ago
Compression algorithms don't care about instrument counts, they care about the complexity of the signal. So there being a total of maybe hundreds of instruments doesn't matter, it's only about how many are playing at any given time. There might be a few dozen instruments playing at any given moment in a classical recording, but they're all highly tuned instruments with several of each one playing just about the exact same note. Grungy rock music might only have a few instruments, but they're often purposefully highly distorted and have people pretty much screaming and shouting, leading to the actual sinal being closer to literally noise. So the closer you are to literally noise, the less compressible your signal is. Imagine a an image with a dozen sharp, clear, colorful squares. Now imagine a similar resolution image with only 5 colors, but they're different shapes and they're kind of fuzzy and they're really more like gradients instead of a pure color. Which is going to compress easier?
- munchler 3y ago
  This is an interesting argument, but not convincing. You are essentially claiming that the information content of a classical recording is low, and could be replicated with fewer, simpler instruments. However, I suspect that many of the interesting subtleties that make a recording sound “beautiful” would be lost that way. Surely such nuances are why classical musicians are so passionate about their instruments. (FWIW, I’m way more of a punk fan myself, and usually find most classical music pretty boring.)
  - vel0city 3y ago
    > You are essentially claiming that the information content of a classical recording is low, and could be replicated with fewer, simpler instruments. No, I do agree having multiple instruments does lead to a wider sound than just a single one. Plus multiple instruments will probably help balance out a single one being out of tune or not quite hitting the note right. But still, these instruments usually are way more tuned to produce closer to pure tones and their harmonic overtones than a guitar going through half a dozen different distortion and effect pedals then through a compressor along with a guy screaming all over the place into a microphone. Also, when strumming a guitar you're almost always playing essentially six strings at once, playing a whole chord with only one instrument. Meanwhile on a flute or a trumpet or a clarinet or a violin a single player is only playing a single note at a time, a single string of the guitar. So during strumming sections a guitar is almost like 6 instruments, in terms of signal complexity. So a rhythm guitar strumming and a lead guitar picking strings is really almost like 7 instruments played by two people compared to many orchestral instruments. Just look at these two spectrograms. Look at the rock song where there's a lot of distorted guitar, bass, drums, and singing going on and compare that to an active part of the classical recording. See how the classical recording has a lot more clean, straight lines while the rock song is a lot more fuzzy? Imagine if these were images, which would be more complicated to accurately compress? That's not really a great analogy, but it is touching on the same concept. Rock song: https://youtu.be/BVsp23B8dWo?t=62 https://youtu.be/BVsp23B8dWo?t=62 Classical song: https://youtu.be/Txp-pHU2K6w?t=210 https://youtu.be/Txp-pHU2K6w?t=210