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> States are free to do so, because a state can outlaw physical devices, seize them at the border, etc. — but that is what it would take to do this. I doubt the
by miki123211 3y ago
> States are free to do so, because a state can outlaw physical devices, seize them at the border, etc. — but that is what it would take to do this. I doubt they will, but that's the only option.
Another alternative is forcing these devices to be designed in such a way that installing unauthorized crypto tools isn't possible.
We're already very close to this point. PCs have Secure Boot, which prevents installing non-approved operating systems. Windows 11 won't boot unless it is enabled. It also requires TPM, which can prevent modification of system and user files by putting the hard drive in an unencumbered computer. Windows Smart screen really doesn't want you to run apps not certified by Microsoft, although it is still possible. Web browsers are doing more and more to prevent you from visiting websites not secured by TLS, outright blocking some APIs if HTTPS isn't enabled.
The tech is here, all it takes is a regulator to tighten up the screws. It's not unimaginable for the EU to ban all motherboards with Secure Boot that can be disabled, to force Microsoft to refuse uncertified apps, to force Microsoft-certified browsers to require TLS with a specific set of root CAs, and to require those root CAs to only issue certificates to those the EU deems worthy. The EU isn't terribly likely to do these specific things out of right-to-repair concerns, though those concerns could probably be assuaged if the certification was done in a fair way by a third party, possibly the government itself, instead of tech companies.
This way, you can have perfectly secure crypto with your bank while still giving the EU the ability to access your messages at need.
- ben_w 3y ago> Another alternative is forcing these devices to be designed in such a way that installing unauthorized crypto tools isn't possible. On the plus side, this does mean no more JavaScript and no more Excel spreadsheets. Unfortunately we'd have to ban nice things too, as those are only two of the things you'd have to ban to make this happen. Don't get me wrong, the government behaviour you describe is plausible — turning those screws to make it harder is highly likely IMO — I'm just saying such limited things will never actually allow them to achieve their goals, and that unless they want to outlaw possession of computers at least as advanced as the Z1 from 87 years ago[0], they need to do their surveillance in a different way that doesn't break crypto. (And that everyone else being able to do that surveillance necessitates substantial social change, but that's a different topic). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z1_(computer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z1_(computer)
- miki123211 3y ago> On the plus side, this does mean no more JavaScript and no more Excel spreadsheets Probably true about Excel (or at least non-cloud Excel), but not JS. You can apply the App Store model but for websites. Require ID to get a TLS certificate, block anything which doesn't do TLS, allow certified websites to execute arbitrary code with a few technical restrictions. If somebody violates the law and is discovered, through either manual or automated means, they can be blocked via TLS revocation lists.