4 ms·

I'm confused. Why is the phrase "internal affairs" not mentioned at all? I thought we had this figured out. Instead I see radicalized comments calling for an en

by Garvi 3y ago

I'm confused. Why is the phrase "internal affairs" not mentioned at all? I thought we had this figured out. Instead I see radicalized comments calling for an end of police oversight. What is going on here?

frankharv 3y ago
The article said this is town of 1900 people. I doubt they have an internal affairs...
- frankharv 3y ago
  The real related question is who is going to investigate the Kansas State Bureau of Investigation. They swooped in to help investigate and now should be investigated. They should be arresting the Police Chief not supporting him. https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article278253028.html https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article2...
  - amanaplanacanal 3y ago
    Where did you get the idea they are supporting him? I don't see that in the article.
- Garvi 3y ago
  I would think they would fall under some other "internal affairs" jurisdiction. No?
  - scrumlord 3y ago
    [dead]
  - notacoward 3y ago
    I don't think I've ever heard of a state-level body (in the US) that directly regulates local police agencies. No, voluntary chief-of-police associations don't count. The "blue wall of silence" runs right through them, and they spend a lot of money on lobbyists to help them reduce accountability. State attorneys general can step in when an actual crime has been committed, but seem reluctant to trigger that kind of jurisdiction debate - as in this case, where a crime clearly was committed. There's an old saying that the two groups of people who laugh at the law are those who break it and those who make it, but neither laughs as hard as the ones who are supposed to enforce it.
    - Garvi 3y ago
      I honestly don't get it. So are certain police forces without supervision. Is this down to budgetary reasons? Is this considered normal?
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        Often the Sheriff is elected. Still way more accountability than the FBI.
        Simulacra 3y ago
        The FBI seems to have no accountability unless enormous political pressure. It really should not be a national police force, instead returning to its scientific assistance to other agencies.
      - notacoward 3y ago
        > are certain police forces without supervision Effectively yes. I forgot to mention the FBI or state equivalents earlier but, as @frankharv already pointed out, they're at least as likely to cover for a rogue police chief as to investigate them. This was especially evident in the civil rights era, when police at many levels were often the main agents of racial oppression throughout the south. > Is this considered normal? Yes, not because of budgets but because of US attitudes toward authority, federalism, etc. See @willcipriano's comment for an example of this in what might be its mildest form (it gets far worse). "Our police chief might be a bastard, but he's our bastard." Far bigger offenses than this one have been quietly tolerated as an alternative to intrusion from a distant capital, all over the US and all through its history.
        Garvi 3y ago
        > Far bigger offenses than this one have been quietly tolerated as an alternative to intrusion from a distant capital, all over the US and all through its history. I think I understand. Is there a reasoning why there is no local oversight? I get the small town argument. But here in Europe small towns fall under the jurisdiction of larger towns. How could this be considered "federal overstepping"?
  - rs999gti 3y ago
    Maybe state police could investigate?
    - themadturk 3y ago
      That's what is happening...the Kansas Bureau of Investigation (the state police, essentially) is investigating. In my state, either a separate municipal police force or the state police will investigate a department too small to have its own IAB unit.
lusus_naturae 3y ago
Action by internal affairs is often a reactionary measure, so I am wondering if there is maybe a preventative measure? I cannot recall, and I am not aware, of any existing protocol that prevents law enforcement infra from overstepping. The legal framework of a country, state, county etc. is what you'd expect them to operate under, but we're discussing this topic right now because sadly this police org was able to justify its actions under the current body of law. Technically, this is why we have politicians, to address these kinds of edge cases.
dmvdoug 3y ago
Because it’s the mayor (and city council) who appoints and may suspend the chief of police in Marion (see Marion City Code 1-301).[0] And they have that authority per Kansas Statutes 14-201 (evidently it is a “city of the second class”).[1] [0] http://marionks.citycode.net/articleOfficersAndEmployees.htm#!-alone http://marionks.citycode.net/articleOfficersAndEmployees.htm... [1] https://www.ksrevisor.org/statutes/chapters/ch14/014_002_0001.html https://www.ksrevisor.org/statutes/chapters/ch14/014_002_000...

by Garvi 3y ago

frankharv 3y ago

The article said this is town of 1900 people. I doubt they have an internal affairs...

frankharv 3y ago
The real related question is who is going to investigate the Kansas State Bureau of Investigation. They swooped in to help investigate and now should be investigated. They should be arresting the Police Chief not supporting him. https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article278253028.html https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article2...
- amanaplanacanal 3y ago
  Where did you get the idea they are supporting him? I don't see that in the article.
Garvi 3y ago
I would think they would fall under some other "internal affairs" jurisdiction. No?
- scrumlord 3y ago
  [dead]
- notacoward 3y ago
  I don't think I've ever heard of a state-level body (in the US) that directly regulates local police agencies. No, voluntary chief-of-police associations don't count. The "blue wall of silence" runs right through them, and they spend a lot of money on lobbyists to help them reduce accountability. State attorneys general can step in when an actual crime has been committed, but seem reluctant to trigger that kind of jurisdiction debate - as in this case, where a crime clearly was committed. There's an old saying that the two groups of people who laugh at the law are those who break it and those who make it, but neither laughs as hard as the ones who are supposed to enforce it.
  - Garvi 3y ago
    I honestly don't get it. So are certain police forces without supervision. Is this down to budgetary reasons? Is this considered normal?
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      Often the Sheriff is elected. Still way more accountability than the FBI.
      - Simulacra 3y ago
        The FBI seems to have no accountability unless enormous political pressure. It really should not be a national police force, instead returning to its scientific assistance to other agencies.
    - notacoward 3y ago
      > are certain police forces without supervision Effectively yes. I forgot to mention the FBI or state equivalents earlier but, as @frankharv already pointed out, they're at least as likely to cover for a rogue police chief as to investigate them. This was especially evident in the civil rights era, when police at many levels were often the main agents of racial oppression throughout the south. > Is this considered normal? Yes, not because of budgets but because of US attitudes toward authority, federalism, etc. See @willcipriano's comment for an example of this in what might be its mildest form (it gets far worse). "Our police chief might be a bastard, but he's our bastard." Far bigger offenses than this one have been quietly tolerated as an alternative to intrusion from a distant capital, all over the US and all through its history.
      - Garvi 3y ago
        > Far bigger offenses than this one have been quietly tolerated as an alternative to intrusion from a distant capital, all over the US and all through its history. I think I understand. Is there a reasoning why there is no local oversight? I get the small town argument. But here in Europe small towns fall under the jurisdiction of larger towns. How could this be considered "federal overstepping"?
- rs999gti 3y ago
  Maybe state police could investigate?
  - themadturk 3y ago
    That's what is happening...the Kansas Bureau of Investigation (the state police, essentially) is investigating. In my state, either a separate municipal police force or the state police will investigate a department too small to have its own IAB unit.

lusus_naturae 3y ago

Action by internal affairs is often a reactionary measure, so I am wondering if there is maybe a preventative measure? I cannot recall, and I am not aware, of any existing protocol that prevents law enforcement infra from overstepping. The legal framework of a country, state, county etc. is what you'd expect them to operate under, but we're discussing this topic right now because sadly this police org was able to justify its actions under the current body of law. Technically, this is why we have politicians, to address these kinds of edge cases.

dmvdoug 3y ago

Because it’s the mayor (and city council) who appoints and may suspend the chief of police in Marion (see Marion City Code 1-301).[0] And they have that authority per Kansas Statutes 14-201 (evidently it is a “city of the second class”).[1] [0] http://marionks.citycode.net/articleOfficersAndEmployees.htm#!-alone http://marionks.citycode.net/articleOfficersAndEmployees.htm... [1] https://www.ksrevisor.org/statutes/chapters/ch14/014_002_0001.html https://www.ksrevisor.org/statutes/chapters/ch14/014_002_000...