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Musk attacked German support for migrants and promoted call to support far-right
- arein3 3y ago[flagged]
- NicoJuicy 3y agoUS is build on immigrants. Even Musk is an immigrant from South Africa
- personomas 3y ago[flagged]
- twism 3y agoIs what we are spewing on HN now? that a set of people are inferior?
- personomas 3y agoInferior yes in the short-term perspective of a human life. Who do you think will is more likely to contribute to earth, a random person from Africa who immigrates to the US on a boat, or a random person who was born and lives in the US? Migrants from Africa and south of the US border are like weight we carry on our back. More and more weight, the slower and slower we are.
- BSVogler 3y agoThe distinction of 1. and 3. world countries is outdated as this indicates that there is a dichotomy between rich and poor countries but there is not. Assumming "1st world country" means US, Canada and most of Europe, Elon Musk is an immigrant from a third world country.
- MattGaiser 3y agoStill waiting for it to come true for the past decades/centuries when people said that about Irish, Jews, Mexicans, Eastern Europeans, etc.
- rasz 3y agoIndeed, it did destroy America in sixteen hundreds.
- zb1plus 3y agoIf Elon hates immigrants so much. He can go back to South Africa.
- jasfi 3y agoHe's likely speaking of unskilled immigrants that get into a country illegally. This type, in large enough quantities, could destabilize a country. How could they not? The question is, is this happening in quantities that large. If any quantity of illegal immigration is OK with you, then why have borders at all?
- licebmi__at__ 3y agoElon by himself is leveraging his fortune to try to influence politics as much. This can also destabilize a country.
- jasfi 3y agoHe does seem to be very political.
- belter 3y agoBillionaires, whose fortunes are amassed with disregard for citizens welfare, are unlikely to harbor genuine concern for immigrants. Their advocacy for right-wing causes, is not altruism....More a narcissistic desire for the spotlight...
- Gibbon1 3y agoMusk never had to learn to be an American. Is not and never will be.
- personomas 3y agoI agree, but AfD is not the direction we want to go in either. They're far more pro-Russian and pro-NAZI - that's also shit. A side, the FDP party is the best party in Germany.
- lionkor 3y agonever before have I seen someone lay out such an FDP argument, only to then literally confirm they like the FDP. Brilliant!
- personomas 3y agoI don't understand what you mean. Do you think the FDP is pro-russian - that's definitely not true.
- joe__f 3y agoDo you have some historical reference for a time when countries were destroyed by immigration in the past?
- ChatGTP 3y agoAustralian Aboriginals ? Native Americans ?
- krapp 3y agoThose weren't immigrants, those were colonizers. Different thing. Immigrants assimilate to the local culture and follow local laws, colonizers force the locals to adopt their laws and culture, or just enslave or kill them.
- defrost 3y agoThe argument, such as it is, being made in Sweden and Germany is that immigrants from Syria and other such places (not the immigrants from the US, Norway, Finland, etc) are not assimilating and not following local laws, thus increasing crime rates, etc. By your comment, they are therefore not immigrants, they are spearhead colonizers.
- krapp 3y ago>By your comment, they are therefore not immigrants, they are spearhead colonizers. No, obviously they aren't colonizers. These conversations are typically low quality enough without purposely misrepresenting terms.
- defrost 3y agoI agree that they are not colonizers. None the less, as evidenced by newspaper articles in Germany and Sweden there are many that state that recent immigrants are not assimilating. By your definition in your comment above, if they do not assimilate then they are .. (in your words) ? FWiW if immigrants are not assimilating I'd put that down to what resources are being put into integrated housing, education, etc. and whether those resources are stretched, etc.
- steeve 3y agoWhat does he know exactly of the situation and the forces that create them? His takes are always so simplistic it hurts.
- johnnyworker 3y agohttps://quotebox.neocities.org/afd https://quotebox.neocities.org/afd > "The big problem is that one presents Hitler as absolutely evil, but of course we know that there is no black and no white in history." -- Björn Höcke, AfD > Who is openly living as homosexual, might go to jail > "We should do that in Germany, too!" Andreas Gehlmann, AfD > "Niggers, sand niggers. I hate them all" > "I would never condemn someone who sets a refugee home on fire." > "I am so longing for a civil war with millions dead. Women, kids. I don't care. As long as it gets started." > "I want to piss on corpses and dance on graves. Sieg Heil!" > "At least now we have so many foreigners in the country, that it would be worth another Holocaust" - Marcel Grauf, Referent of Dr. Christina Baum, AfD and Heiner Merz, AfD > "Burning refugee homes are not an act of aggression." -- Sandro Hersel, AfD And so on. Giving these fucks (which is putting it way, way too mildly), or anyone who remotely supports them, one inch, causes so much more harm than any specter you could conjure. And of course, the AfD supports all sorts of neo-liberal BS, and doesn't support worker's rights. It's just the same old, same old: the actual exploiters playing the little people against each other. Germany is a rich country. We can afford immigrants. We cannot afford Musk and his ilk. Nobody can. Also, as a bonus, Musk is totally afraid of things being told how they are, just one of many examples: https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/14/musk_twitter_rpc_spat/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/14/musk_twitter_rpc_spat...
- BSVogler 3y agoPutin is actively trying to destroy Europe by multiple channels. Russian web brigades, support of far right parties, destabilizing African countries to increase migration (eg. preventing wheat export from Ukraine), transporting migrants as a weapon to Europe, starting a war in Ukraine etc. And Elon is frequently shows support for Putin's side. His tweet is giving support to an extremist party that is pro-Putin. And in just one weeks there are elections in Bavaria.
- qp11 3y agoIt doesnt matter what Biden, Putin, Musk or Zelensky say. Germans have to come up with their own vision for the long term future of Europe. Cuz who else is going to lead Europe? If they cant agree within Germany about anything, its natural they are going to be pushed around by everyone else.
- pharmakom 3y agoFrance is the likely leader in Europe imo.
- gmerc 3y agocitation needed and not from Mein Kampf
- giraffe_lady 3y agoYeah he's a right wing activist and publicly holds right wing views and publicly associates with far right extremists.
- fulafel 3y agohttps://www.gocomics.com/tomthedancingbug/2023/09/15 https://www.gocomics.com/tomthedancingbug/2023/09/15
- sneak 3y agoFun fact: he didn't shut anything down, as Starlink was already inoperative in the warzone. The comic suggests that an affirmative decision was made to violate the assumptions of those in possession of working hardware. In fact he simply declined a special request that Starlink be activated in a region in which it is not currently active, a request made by people who wished to use it to carry out violence. I know it's not popular to be anti-war, especially when there is an invasion where it's pretty clear who is the aggressor and who is the victim, but at the very least if you are going to attack someone for being anti-violence and anti-war, get your facts straight when you do the attacking. I think there is a lot more anger and outrage due to the remaining members of the UN Security Council who haven't kicked Russia out yet than a guy who wouldn't let you use his internet satellites to conduct mass murder.
- jnsaff2 3y agoOn a recent episode [0] of the Geopolitics Decanted podcast there was a discussion that pretty much agrees with your take on this not being the one thing to blame Musk for. I am pretty confused about your "anti-war" comment though. In the russo-Ukrainian war the calls for "anti-war" can be made only to russia and since we know that this has been proven to be futile the rest of the options are to let Ukrainians die, be tortured, raped, enslaved, terrorized or help them. Or am I missing something? [0] - https://podcast.silverado.org/episodes/starlink-in-ukraine-why-the-story-is-not-so-simple https://podcast.silverado.org/episodes/starlink-in-ukraine-w...
- sneak 3y agoYou're missing something in that there is a war with two participants going on. It is not accurate to say that "calls for anti-war can only be made to Russia". Ukraine could of course end the war today by surrendering. I'm not saying that that is good or bad, just that it's fact. It seems to be heterodox to point out that the war could probably end immediately in some capacity other than total surrender by one of the combatants, which would necessarily involve a new status quo that does not comport with the pre-annexation territory lines. Musk was attacked endlessly for proposing such a thing. I personally think the tragedy befalling the societies on both sides of this conflict are roughly on the same order in terms of magnitude, and that whatever we can do to end the senseless deaths of thousands of people should be done, regardless of where lines on maps end up. Our automatic and reflexive human drive for fairness and equity seems to be incompatible with this idea of letting an invader keep their ill-gotten territorial gains, preferring instead to continue slaughtering population on both sides in service of an old map. It is not more or less tragic when a teenage Russian conscript's mother gets the news of her son's slaughter than it is when a Ukranian mother gets similar news of her own son after he has been forced into slavery in service of a status quo that no longer exists. I see everyone clamoring how this is "not our war" but neither is it that of those who are being forced at gunpoint into this violence, no matter what flag is on their arm. If you believe, as I do, that the Ukranian people are a somewhat cohesive group with a distinct culture and identity that is worth preserving, the optimal strategy for preserving that culture and group into the future seems to me to take whatever actions possible that will preserve the lives of as many Ukrainians as possible, regardless of what nationality they are assigned by whoever controls the territory on which they live. I fear that they have chosen to trade numbers for sovereignty, which historically never works out very well when matched against an opponent with vastly more resources. I want people (Ukrainians AND Russians) to stop being killed. Now. Today. All other considerations are secondary.
- churchill 3y ago[flagged]
- johnnyworker 3y agoSupporting the AfD doesn't make you a far-right bigot, it makes you an actual Nazi (also see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37724832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37724832 ). Distractions from that are not acceptable and will not be forgotten.
- viraptor 3y ago> anyone that questions unrestricted immigration No modern country (where people want to immigrate) has or is planning unrestricted immigration. Starting from that kind of strawman doesn't lead to any reasonable argument.
- epups 3y agoBe it as it may, regardless of immigration policy we cannot watch and let people simply die in the sea. That is barbaric and it must be stopped.
- tinus_hn 3y agoThe solution is to take these people from the sea back to where they came from. The idea to rescue them onto a small island so they can flood Europe has been tried, doesn’t work, it only causes more people to try to cross over.
- rastignack 3y agoMost of the times there are dropped a few miles away from the African coasts, with a good coordination between the smugglers and the NGOs. They then spend the essential of their travel in safe ships. They could travel less if the NGOs policy was to save them and return them to Africa. Those NGOs are smugglers.
- sneak 3y ago> So, don't blame Musk and the AfD - blame the ultra-progressive EU politicians who believe you have to help everyone who's escaping their country, sustain them on welfare indefinitely, and not criticize them no matter their crimes. I feel like the only way one can write this with a straight face is if you are ignorant of the AfD's actual stance on issues other than immigration.
- pharmakom 3y agoThe trouble with billionaires is that we all have to deal with their midlife crisis.
- ChatGTP 3y agoWonder if it would be a better outcome for him to just focus on his own companies? Why does he weight in so heavily on politics? I guess for new business opportunities ?
- 15457345234 3y agoI guess sometimes situations appear so obviously broken that you have to say something if you see something. If I see someone about to drill through an electrical cable, I'll tell them to stop. Some people will just watch and laugh. That's the difference between us, I guess. I have no idea why Germany appears to have adopted a migration strategy that seems almost guaranteed to start a large scale race war within their country but I'm not going to pretend I think it's fine.
- Zigurd 3y agoThat depends on how you want those companies to perform. Cybertruck is Elon's baby. His designers were, and probably still are skeptical. Starship could very well be a Space Spruce Goose. And, of course, Xitter, which is his passion project, is down in value by 66-90% depending on who you ask.
- rsynnott 3y agoThere seems to be a certain sort of celebrity who feels the need to use their megaphone for awful takes on complex subjects of which they have only the most basic understanding. Musk is a particularly prolific example, but it’s a bit of an epidemic lately. He might do better to stick with the imaginary car tunnels, when he feels the urge for some nonsense.
- sneak 3y agoI struggle to understand how implying that the electorate is uninformed correlates to claiming to understand the situation fully. I, for example, don't know much about a lot of the US federal government's internal workings, but I do know that most people that pay taxes to the US don't know much about how their tax money is used, or why. It's a stretch to claim that he has some special understanding because he tweeted something adjacent.
- thiht 3y agoMusk the pro-Russian, anti worker rights strikes again. Authoritarian and anti-social regimes are clearly a part of his personal agenda at this point. I never say that but fuck that guy, he did some great things but still manages to be a net negative for the world. I uninstalled Twitter from all my platforms and will not use any of his products in the future. If you want to « gotcha » me with some product I don’t realize is his, please tell me so that I stop using it asap.
- nvm0n2 3y agoThe actual tweet in question: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1707758153977204846 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1707758153977204846 It says only, "Are the German public aware of this?" as a response to a tweet about Germany funding NGOs who are shipping illegal immigrants to Italy. The original tweet ends by saying they hope the AfD will win. So there are a few problems here: 1. Musk didn't even mention the AfD, yet he's now "promoting calls to support the far right" where by "promote" they mean "reply on Twitter to a tweet promoting". 2. The AfD is not extremist. Go read their manifesto. It's translated to English. The very first section is basically let's be more like Switzerland, lol, that well known bunch of extremists. 3. Business Insider says The billionaire had promoted the claim that Germany is facilitating "illegal" immigration to Europe. with illegal in quotes, as if there's actually some doubt about it. But it's not a claim, it's a fact, which BI admits in the very next bullet point. None of the people being shipped to Italy are legal migrants. 4. It then says Musk, on Friday, amplified similar criticism and directly waded into German domestic politics, suggesting that the governing coalition should pay a price at the ballot box. but he didn't make any such suggestion anywhere, only the tweet he was replying to did. So this point isn't accurate at all. This is a great example of the ideological propaganda that the media loves to serve up as news. It plays fast and loose with the truth, puts words in people's mouths that they didn't even say, implies controversy and doubt over universally acknowledged facts and describes anyone who disagrees with the journalist's stance as a Nazi extremist.