3 ms·

There is no Jewish or Christian denomination that rejects Genesis or Psalms.

bryanrasmussen 3y ago
1. that seems unlikely given the amount of denominations that call themselves 'Christian', unless your statement is tautological, but OK 2. explicit rejection is not quite the same as not following all things in common practice of the religion. I know people classed as Christians who do not at any rate follow the whole be fruitful and multiply guidance.
- emodendroket 3y ago
  1. You’re welcome to name one then. The Marcionites would qualify if that movement weren’t extinguished thousands of years ago. All modern Christian denominations more or less agree on points that were decided that early on in the history of Christianity. 2. Right, most people do not follow this in practice even if such commands appear in their religious scriptures. You might remember that the whole point of the comparison was my contention that we can expect something similar to happen with Muslims.
  - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
    Ok back to point two - I agree that it appears in scripture, I made it sound like individuals don't follow the religion which is true, but also I believe there are denominations of Christianity that don't push it. It is one thing to hear go do this constantly from the pulpit (hence my reference to fundamentalist Christianity which often does this) and decide as an individual not to go do it, it is another thing to never hear it pushed from the pulpit, read it in the book, and not care. This goes back to my statement > I certainly believe fundamentalist Christians are into this thing but not sure what percentage of each set [Christian, Muslim] has this as a core tenet. by core tenet I do not mean something written in your text and agreed that this is an important part, but something that is hammered on all the time. What does "is hammered on all the time" mean? If a priest spends lots of time saying that people should go out and have children and find other Christians to marry to make a Christian nation I would consider that really hammering the issue. IF they don't then that church doesn't care. If pretty much none of the leaders of that denomination do so then I would say it is not a core tenet of the denomination. So the question is if it is a core tenet of Muslim denominations? Which I don't know how many there are of that, I get the feeling they are in some ways much less fractured but perhaps in other ways it might be they are more fractured in belief systems than the large set of peoples normally called "Christian" If however it is a core tenet then my belief is that core tenets do not change in a single generation, I would think several generations would need to happen before the religious leaders were not saying it all the time and the followers were thus not feeling obligated to follow. Sure in three generations I would expect alignment with other groups, by and large. This belief of mine is however only a belief as I am not aware of any kind of large scale study in memetics or (perhaps to get away from a loaded term) idea transmission in multi-generational hierarchical organizations which is what a religion would be. I am also willing to believe I am totally wrong here - for example if one found a religion that went from salvation by works to salvation by faith alone in one generation among a large Christian denomination then I would say - huh, I am definitely wrong and it means large scale hierarchical organizations / religions can be changed in one generation (although I would expect to see charismatic leadership involved now that I am considering the idea)

1. that seems unlikely given the amount of denominations that call themselves 'Christian', unless your statement is tautological, but OK 2. explicit rejection is not quite the same as not following all things in common practice of the religion. I know people classed as Christians who do not at any rate follow the whole be fruitful and multiply guidance.

emodendroket 3y ago
1. You’re welcome to name one then. The Marcionites would qualify if that movement weren’t extinguished thousands of years ago. All modern Christian denominations more or less agree on points that were decided that early on in the history of Christianity. 2. Right, most people do not follow this in practice even if such commands appear in their religious scriptures. You might remember that the whole point of the comparison was my contention that we can expect something similar to happen with Muslims.
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago
  Ok back to point two - I agree that it appears in scripture, I made it sound like individuals don't follow the religion which is true, but also I believe there are denominations of Christianity that don't push it. It is one thing to hear go do this constantly from the pulpit (hence my reference to fundamentalist Christianity which often does this) and decide as an individual not to go do it, it is another thing to never hear it pushed from the pulpit, read it in the book, and not care. This goes back to my statement > I certainly believe fundamentalist Christians are into this thing but not sure what percentage of each set [Christian, Muslim] has this as a core tenet. by core tenet I do not mean something written in your text and agreed that this is an important part, but something that is hammered on all the time. What does "is hammered on all the time" mean? If a priest spends lots of time saying that people should go out and have children and find other Christians to marry to make a Christian nation I would consider that really hammering the issue. IF they don't then that church doesn't care. If pretty much none of the leaders of that denomination do so then I would say it is not a core tenet of the denomination. So the question is if it is a core tenet of Muslim denominations? Which I don't know how many there are of that, I get the feeling they are in some ways much less fractured but perhaps in other ways it might be they are more fractured in belief systems than the large set of peoples normally called "Christian" If however it is a core tenet then my belief is that core tenets do not change in a single generation, I would think several generations would need to happen before the religious leaders were not saying it all the time and the followers were thus not feeling obligated to follow. Sure in three generations I would expect alignment with other groups, by and large. This belief of mine is however only a belief as I am not aware of any kind of large scale study in memetics or (perhaps to get away from a loaded term) idea transmission in multi-generational hierarchical organizations which is what a religion would be. I am also willing to believe I am totally wrong here - for example if one found a religion that went from salvation by works to salvation by faith alone in one generation among a large Christian denomination then I would say - huh, I am definitely wrong and it means large scale hierarchical organizations / religions can be changed in one generation (although I would expect to see charismatic leadership involved now that I am considering the idea)