6 ms·

Companies don't want to give employees any warning that they're about to be fired - because that would give the employee a chance to do some damage (modify or d

by entuno 3y ago

Companies don't want to give employees any warning that they're about to be fired - because that would give the employee a chance to do some damage (modify or destroy data, steal IP, etc). The person who's being fired shouldn't know that it's going to happen until they sit down in the meeting, and all their access should be revoked before they leave the meeting room. It sucks for the employee - but it would be negligent for the company to let them continue to have access once they know that they're being fired. However, it's much better practice to do it with a more generic kind of meeting invite (or even just not scheduling the meeting), rather than creating a fake and positive sounding one.

wakmak99 3y ago
I agree in principle, however I was in marketing without access to IP or social accounts etc that, hypothetically, a disgruntled employee could use to cause brand damage. What's also ironic is that my access to their company slack is still working
- entuno 3y ago
  If you took the entire content of your mailbox, any files shares/onedrive/etc and the all the slack channels you could access and dumped that all online, I imagine that would still do a fair bit of damage to your company. And even if there's nothing overly sensitive or embarrassing in what you post, the fact that you were able to makes the company look incompetent and insecure. Or you could be more destructive - think how many companies get hit with ransomware and how much that costs them. You don't even need to be technical to do most of it - just "fall" for obvious phishing emails, download dodgy software, etc. Or (assuming you have a physical office), you could break things, steal from the company, plant bugs or remote access devices, etc. Hell, even if the best case where you don't do anything actively malicious, if you know you're getting fired in a week then you're not going to put in much effort or do have any incentive to try and do a good job in your last few days. They have nothing to gain and potentially a lot to lose by letting people know they're being fired, so it's not really a surprise that most companies act that way.
  - wakmak99 3y ago
    Ok, I am going on a tangent but then I'm surprised why many companies use Performance Improvement Plans when that can expose themselves to such risks. I know PIPs aren't always about immediate terminations, but often they end up leading to terminations, and employees usually sense it coming
    - entuno 3y ago
      Unless they're downsizing, companies don't generally want to fire people, because it's expensive to replace them, and it wastes all the time and effort spent training them. If an employee isn't performing well, it's in everyone's interest to address that issue, rather than just firing them and then trying to find and train a replacement. And if you live somewhere that had decent employment rights, companies are often required to do a PIP (or something similar) and to demonstrate that they've taken reasonable steps to try and resolve the issue before they resort to firing.
      - wakmak99 3y ago
        helpful. Based on my cursory research I've learned that in California employers can fire an employee for any lawful reason or no reason at all. They don't have to show cause or give any warnings or multiple chances
        sokoloff 3y ago
        This is true for most employers in the US. Nevertheless, most employers would rather help an employee (especially one whose situation is temporary) to succeed, because hiring and onboarding is way more effort than getting a previously good employee back to where they can perform well again. But, once a point of no return has definitively been reached, I think it’s best for both sides to not drag out the separation with a checkbox PIP or other theatrics. Pay the employee a reasonable severance and separate quickly. (I’ve seen genuine PIPs succeed and result in long-term continued employment; theatrical, check-the-box for legal/HR PIPs are cruel and wasteful.)
lr1970 3y ago
> The person who's being fired shouldn't know that it's going to happen until they sit down in the meeting, and all their access should be revoked before they leave the meeting room. Should it be reciprocal then? An employee who is leaving voluntarily casually hands their badge to their manager (or receptionist) on their way out of the door. 1 minute advanced notice instead of customary two weeks.

by entuno 3y ago

wakmak99 3y ago

I agree in principle, however I was in marketing without access to IP or social accounts etc that, hypothetically, a disgruntled employee could use to cause brand damage. What's also ironic is that my access to their company slack is still working

entuno 3y ago
If you took the entire content of your mailbox, any files shares/onedrive/etc and the all the slack channels you could access and dumped that all online, I imagine that would still do a fair bit of damage to your company. And even if there's nothing overly sensitive or embarrassing in what you post, the fact that you were able to makes the company look incompetent and insecure. Or you could be more destructive - think how many companies get hit with ransomware and how much that costs them. You don't even need to be technical to do most of it - just "fall" for obvious phishing emails, download dodgy software, etc. Or (assuming you have a physical office), you could break things, steal from the company, plant bugs or remote access devices, etc. Hell, even if the best case where you don't do anything actively malicious, if you know you're getting fired in a week then you're not going to put in much effort or do have any incentive to try and do a good job in your last few days. They have nothing to gain and potentially a lot to lose by letting people know they're being fired, so it's not really a surprise that most companies act that way.
- wakmak99 3y ago
  Ok, I am going on a tangent but then I'm surprised why many companies use Performance Improvement Plans when that can expose themselves to such risks. I know PIPs aren't always about immediate terminations, but often they end up leading to terminations, and employees usually sense it coming
  - entuno 3y ago
    Unless they're downsizing, companies don't generally want to fire people, because it's expensive to replace them, and it wastes all the time and effort spent training them. If an employee isn't performing well, it's in everyone's interest to address that issue, rather than just firing them and then trying to find and train a replacement. And if you live somewhere that had decent employment rights, companies are often required to do a PIP (or something similar) and to demonstrate that they've taken reasonable steps to try and resolve the issue before they resort to firing.
    - wakmak99 3y ago
      helpful. Based on my cursory research I've learned that in California employers can fire an employee for any lawful reason or no reason at all. They don't have to show cause or give any warnings or multiple chances
      - sokoloff 3y ago
        This is true for most employers in the US. Nevertheless, most employers would rather help an employee (especially one whose situation is temporary) to succeed, because hiring and onboarding is way more effort than getting a previously good employee back to where they can perform well again. But, once a point of no return has definitively been reached, I think it’s best for both sides to not drag out the separation with a checkbox PIP or other theatrics. Pay the employee a reasonable severance and separate quickly. (I’ve seen genuine PIPs succeed and result in long-term continued employment; theatrical, check-the-box for legal/HR PIPs are cruel and wasteful.)

lr1970 3y ago

> The person who's being fired shouldn't know that it's going to happen until they sit down in the meeting, and all their access should be revoked before they leave the meeting room. Should it be reciprocal then? An employee who is leaving voluntarily casually hands their badge to their manager (or receptionist) on their way out of the door. 1 minute advanced notice instead of customary two weeks.