4 ms·

> Religious sects that promote having large families will thrive, imagine what that will do to our societies. > What is the solution then? Immigration. I can u

> Religious sects that promote having large families will thrive, imagine what that will do to our societies. > What is the solution then? Immigration. I can understand holding either of those views, but not both at the same time. Why do you expect immigrants from a culture that produces a surplus of people (and pressure to immigrate) to have a lesser/better effect on your culture than the offspring of native religious "sects"?

Roark66 3y ago
If you cut out the next sentence, yes it looks contradictory. Consider I wrote the below immediately after: >(the legal kind). We (the West) have to establish systems that promote migrant integration. Immigration is not a single problem to be for or against. It's a complex problem that can help us resolve our population growth problems or it can destroy our societies(there are examples of both). The key differences between the "good" immigration and the "bad" immigration are: the good is usually, but not always legal and the bad is usually but not always illegal. Other things that matter a lot are the purpose why people immigrate(escaping an actual war going to closest safe place, trying to better one's economic situation by gaining a skill that allows one to work in a more developed economy or going with an intent of gaming the benefit system and living off that), the desire to integrate once the immigrants gets there and the actions the host state does to encourage that (example of bad: put immigrants all in social housing together creating no incentive to learn the host country's language etc, example of good: distribute migrants evenly across the entire country requesting each local gov to provide few units of social housing that are not right next to each other),and finally one of the major ones :the ease of gaming the benefit system. I personally have met people that had their children registered for benefits in 3 countries and the entire family living off that (Germany, Denmark and Netherlands I believe.). I heard in Germany an unemployed immigrant gets more in benefits that he (because it is a he 99% of time) could hope to earn in any unskilled job. This doesn't promote integration and asimilation. It promotes people who go to work being called suckers by their peers. So yes, there is good immigration (all the people that immigrate legally, or are fleeing a genuine war next door) and there is the bad (all the desperate people that were sold a dream of a life without having to work by living off benefits, then they pay people's smugglers and if they manage to survive the trip they realise this life is not going to be as good as they thought). So yes, I propose we increase legal, skill based immigration, we encourage integration and assimilation a lot more, and we have expulsion as a penalty for crime. Furthermore, we actually protect our borders, and we enforce the border enforcement by the countries on route, so the illegal immigration goes down to a manageable level. And where people in source countries are really suffering we help these countries over there. I only glanced over the problem. The ne would have to write a book on the subject to properly cover it. However, seeing first hand examples of good and bad immigration in many countries such as the UK, Germany, France and Poland I believe calling all immigration bad is equally silly as calling it all good.
- 8note 3y ago
  > there is good immigration (all the people that immigrate legally, or are fleeing a genuine war next door) and there is the bad (all the desperate people that were sold a dream of a life without having to work by living off benefits, I propose instead: deporting citizens who were sold a dream of a life without having to work by living off benefits? In this awful world you want to live in, why should people born in one place get to screw me over while people born in other don't? There's nothing special about Greg from down the street, let's throw him down a well to drown if he's not benefiting me
  - Roark66 3y ago
    >In this awful world you want to live in, why should people born in one place get to screw me over while people born in other don't? There's nothing special about Greg from down the street, let's throw him down a well to drown if he's not benefiting me I'm not quite sure why you equate deporting someone who crossed the border illegally, because he thought he can live there without having to work, with "throwing Greg from down the street into a well"? We already have systems in place where people can demonstrate that if they are indeed in danger of loosing their life they will be granted asylum. You're confusing people that are genuinely in danger (escaping war or persecution) with people that just want to better their economic situation illegally.

Roark66 3y ago

If you cut out the next sentence, yes it looks contradictory. Consider I wrote the below immediately after: >(the legal kind). We (the West) have to establish systems that promote migrant integration. Immigration is not a single problem to be for or against. It's a complex problem that can help us resolve our population growth problems or it can destroy our societies(there are examples of both). The key differences between the "good" immigration and the "bad" immigration are: the good is usually, but not always legal and the bad is usually but not always illegal. Other things that matter a lot are the purpose why people immigrate(escaping an actual war going to closest safe place, trying to better one's economic situation by gaining a skill that allows one to work in a more developed economy or going with an intent of gaming the benefit system and living off that), the desire to integrate once the immigrants gets there and the actions the host state does to encourage that (example of bad: put immigrants all in social housing together creating no incentive to learn the host country's language etc, example of good: distribute migrants evenly across the entire country requesting each local gov to provide few units of social housing that are not right next to each other),and finally one of the major ones :the ease of gaming the benefit system. I personally have met people that had their children registered for benefits in 3 countries and the entire family living off that (Germany, Denmark and Netherlands I believe.). I heard in Germany an unemployed immigrant gets more in benefits that he (because it is a he 99% of time) could hope to earn in any unskilled job. This doesn't promote integration and asimilation. It promotes people who go to work being called suckers by their peers. So yes, there is good immigration (all the people that immigrate legally, or are fleeing a genuine war next door) and there is the bad (all the desperate people that were sold a dream of a life without having to work by living off benefits, then they pay people's smugglers and if they manage to survive the trip they realise this life is not going to be as good as they thought). So yes, I propose we increase legal, skill based immigration, we encourage integration and assimilation a lot more, and we have expulsion as a penalty for crime. Furthermore, we actually protect our borders, and we enforce the border enforcement by the countries on route, so the illegal immigration goes down to a manageable level. And where people in source countries are really suffering we help these countries over there. I only glanced over the problem. The ne would have to write a book on the subject to properly cover it. However, seeing first hand examples of good and bad immigration in many countries such as the UK, Germany, France and Poland I believe calling all immigration bad is equally silly as calling it all good.

8note 3y ago
> there is good immigration (all the people that immigrate legally, or are fleeing a genuine war next door) and there is the bad (all the desperate people that were sold a dream of a life without having to work by living off benefits, I propose instead: deporting citizens who were sold a dream of a life without having to work by living off benefits? In this awful world you want to live in, why should people born in one place get to screw me over while people born in other don't? There's nothing special about Greg from down the street, let's throw him down a well to drown if he's not benefiting me
- Roark66 3y ago
  >In this awful world you want to live in, why should people born in one place get to screw me over while people born in other don't? There's nothing special about Greg from down the street, let's throw him down a well to drown if he's not benefiting me I'm not quite sure why you equate deporting someone who crossed the border illegally, because he thought he can live there without having to work, with "throwing Greg from down the street into a well"? We already have systems in place where people can demonstrate that if they are indeed in danger of loosing their life they will be granted asylum. You're confusing people that are genuinely in danger (escaping war or persecution) with people that just want to better their economic situation illegally.