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Why companies make firing more painful than it should be?
Until recently, I worked to a “pre-ipo” tech company. My manager consistently praised the substance of my work and only feedback given was that I was “not an alpha” like her, and how she “doesn’t let anyone talk in the meetings”, make every meeting “my” meeting, and telling me that “these people don’t listen unless you talk loud”.
What truly shocked me on how I was fired. My manager crafted a deceptive meeting invitation, detailing a visit from the CFO and the supposed review of an upcoming conference, only to tell me that sole purpose of the meeting was to fire me. I am still processing that PTSD this sudden surprise caused me.
I am aware of at-will employment but I just can't wrap my head around why companies feel the need to go at great lengths to blindside their employees when firing them
- jimnotgym 3y agoCan I ask where in the world you are? How long have you worked there?
- wakmak99 3y agobay area/silicon valley. I had joined ~6 months ago
- jimnotgym 3y agoYour problem is that you work in a country that has yet to evolve to a state of evolution where there are decent labour laws. Your country values capital above people. Until you vote for something else this is what you will get
- sokoloff 3y agoWhen it’s easy to fire, it’s also easy to hire. The amount of agonizing we do before extending a permanent contract in the Netherlands is somewhat higher than in the US. It’s way higher still in Germany. It would be even higher in France, if we ever did that. Employment protections do favor those who pass the hurdle to become employed; they also act as a hurdle that needs to be overcome to get to the place where they’re helpful.
- jimnotgym 3y agoDoes your part of Europe have a high unemployment problem? Mine doesn't? Germany doesn't.
- sokoloff 3y agoWhat does tech pay in your part of Europe? How does that compare to “freer” vs “less free” economies in Europe or to tech comp in the US? Being less free or more costly in employers’ ability to fire reduces the demand for labor by those employers, which suppresses wages.
- jimnotgym 3y agoOr you could answer my question?
- stop50 3y agoI had one like this. Endlessly postponed. in short: sorry an preplaned meeting with the boss was cancelled. please drive 4 hours (oneway) for an half an hour meeting in person. Then when it begann: you didn't met the expectations, please go back to the office. Pack everything up and i will escort you out.
- GianFabien 3y agoSorry to read about your plight. The warning signs are in her being a self-proclaimed alpha. The monopolizing meetings, etc are a sign of a very toxic person. You can't generalize from this one encounter to the industry in general, although your experience is not at all unique. Good luck and hope you land in far more congenial company and soon.
- andym123 3y agoGetting fired for not being an alpha can be considered workplace bullying.
- wakmak99 3y agoNot sure and also not sure how to prove that. She was mostly cursing in our team meetings, did not let her directs finish sentences, and was really loud. She also didn’t show up for almost any of the 1:1s - he favorite way of communication was randomly calling team members on their cell phones while she was driving and called that 1:1. 15 years in tech; this experience was unique for me.
- brutus1213 3y agoWhat general type of company? Need to avoid them like the plague.
- wakmak99 3y agoI really want to share all the details but I am trying not to risk the 4 weeks of severance they have offered, which is unfortunately important for me in this job market :(
- hunglee2 3y agoIncredibly bad practice. This type of behaviour would illegal in many jurisdictions with the basics of employee protection. However, in at will jurisdictions, there is little can be done other than for employees to have to suffer it. I am sorry for your experience, I wish you better luck in your next opportunity
- wakmak99 3y agoThanks for kind words. I know these might appear as minor things but i wish that employers, in general, give some signal when there are performance issues (even though they don't have to in the at will states), and at least don't frame termination meetings with so much fabricated pretext. Personally, I am not complaining about the termination itself, but rather the way it was handled, which gave me unnecessary emotional distress
- entuno 3y agoCompanies don't want to give employees any warning that they're about to be fired - because that would give the employee a chance to do some damage (modify or destroy data, steal IP, etc). The person who's being fired shouldn't know that it's going to happen until they sit down in the meeting, and all their access should be revoked before they leave the meeting room. It sucks for the employee - but it would be negligent for the company to let them continue to have access once they know that they're being fired. However, it's much better practice to do it with a more generic kind of meeting invite (or even just not scheduling the meeting), rather than creating a fake and positive sounding one.
- wakmak99 3y agoI agree in principle, however I was in marketing without access to IP or social accounts etc that, hypothetically, a disgruntled employee could use to cause brand damage. What's also ironic is that my access to their company slack is still working
- entuno 3y agoIf you took the entire content of your mailbox, any files shares/onedrive/etc and the all the slack channels you could access and dumped that all online, I imagine that would still do a fair bit of damage to your company. And even if there's nothing overly sensitive or embarrassing in what you post, the fact that you were able to makes the company look incompetent and insecure. Or you could be more destructive - think how many companies get hit with ransomware and how much that costs them. You don't even need to be technical to do most of it - just "fall" for obvious phishing emails, download dodgy software, etc. Or (assuming you have a physical office), you could break things, steal from the company, plant bugs or remote access devices, etc. Hell, even if the best case where you don't do anything actively malicious, if you know you're getting fired in a week then you're not going to put in much effort or do have any incentive to try and do a good job in your last few days. They have nothing to gain and potentially a lot to lose by letting people know they're being fired, so it's not really a surprise that most companies act that way.
- 3y ago
- wakmak99 3y agothanks for replies and support. What I am gathering is that there are no potential repercussion for the company or my ex-manager (VP) given the labor laws in CA (which have their own advantages & disadvantages), so my only option is to tolerate the emotional pain and move on...