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After ww2 lots more women didn't work and so could provide childcare. The problem today is a 2 full-time salaried income is required to be able to afford a dec

by nly 3y ago

After ww2 lots more women didn't work and so could provide childcare. The problem today is a 2 full-time salaried income is required to be able to afford a decent standard of living for a family, whereas even as late as the 80s it was feasibly to raise a family on a single median income.

Earw0rm 3y ago
"decent standard of living" has changed a bit since WW2 also. Granted, it'd be hard on a single median income today, but if you're making two, three times median - in your 20s - it should be doable. And that's everyone on a six figure tech salary, to start off with.
pmg102 3y ago
Are you genuinely arguing that people in 2023 are poorer than they were in 1950? This would be astonishing if true wouldn't it? Hasn't GDP tripled or something since then? I think it's more likely to be expectation inflation. People in 2023 just wouldn't be satisfied to live the life people were satisfied to live in 1950. A thought experiment could be: - There are people that earn 100kpa and people that earn 50kpa - Both kinds of people think they "need two incomes to live these days" - Obviously the 100kpa people could ditch a whole income and live at the level of the two 50kpa people -- but they wouldn't choose to, they'd rather have the lifestyle of a 200kpa household
- jbombadil 3y ago
  Yes. About 4 times poorer. (Scoping to the domain of “buying a house” which is a huge driving factor in having children) > Median home prices increased 121% nationwide since 1960, but median household income only increased 29%.[0] [0] https://listwithclever.com/research/home-price-v-income-historical-study/ https://listwithclever.com/research/home-price-v-income-hist... (That’s from where I quoted, but there’s plenty of sources. More available upon request)
  - ekianjo 3y ago
    > Yes. About 4 times poorer. You don't need to buy a house to be able to live. And no, people are not poorer if you consider all factors. That's a crazy argument to make. No human living in 2023 would want to live with 1950 standards.
    - jbombadil 3y ago
      > You don’t need to buy a house to be able to live. Agree. > No human living in 2023 would want to live by 1950 standards. Also agree. But that neither of those things are relevant for the argument. You don’t need a house to live, but it provides stability, which is a huge part of the decision of having children.

by nly 3y ago

Earw0rm 3y ago

"decent standard of living" has changed a bit since WW2 also. Granted, it'd be hard on a single median income today, but if you're making two, three times median - in your 20s - it should be doable. And that's everyone on a six figure tech salary, to start off with.

pmg102 3y ago

Are you genuinely arguing that people in 2023 are poorer than they were in 1950? This would be astonishing if true wouldn't it? Hasn't GDP tripled or something since then? I think it's more likely to be expectation inflation. People in 2023 just wouldn't be satisfied to live the life people were satisfied to live in 1950. A thought experiment could be: - There are people that earn 100kpa and people that earn 50kpa - Both kinds of people think they "need two incomes to live these days" - Obviously the 100kpa people could ditch a whole income and live at the level of the two 50kpa people -- but they wouldn't choose to, they'd rather have the lifestyle of a 200kpa household

jbombadil 3y ago
Yes. About 4 times poorer. (Scoping to the domain of “buying a house” which is a huge driving factor in having children) > Median home prices increased 121% nationwide since 1960, but median household income only increased 29%.[0] [0] https://listwithclever.com/research/home-price-v-income-historical-study/ https://listwithclever.com/research/home-price-v-income-hist... (That’s from where I quoted, but there’s plenty of sources. More available upon request)
- ekianjo 3y ago
  > Yes. About 4 times poorer. You don't need to buy a house to be able to live. And no, people are not poorer if you consider all factors. That's a crazy argument to make. No human living in 2023 would want to live with 1950 standards.
  - jbombadil 3y ago
    > You don’t need to buy a house to be able to live. Agree. > No human living in 2023 would want to live by 1950 standards. Also agree. But that neither of those things are relevant for the argument. You don’t need a house to live, but it provides stability, which is a huge part of the decision of having children.