5 ms·

America is not ideal by any measure, but China is extremely bad (I mean the current governmental system in China, obviously, not every person living there). And

by smsm42 3y ago

America is not ideal by any measure, but China is extremely bad (I mean the current governmental system in China, obviously, not every person living there). And anybody who ignores that is either uninformed, or intellectually unable to comprehend the true state of matters - or, if previous knowledge precludes both possibilities, a China shill. Paid or voluntary - there could be options, a surprising number of people are shilling for a surprising variety of disgusting regimes out of varied logical twists they bound themselves into, but I don't see how one can escape that conclusion, given the available facts.

tehjoker 3y ago
[flagged]
- smsm42 3y ago
  No I don't. I just have to be aware of the horrifying reality of what is happening in China.
  - helpfulContrib 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - monting 3y ago
      They weren't "lifted". They stopped their policies, lasseize faire, and the market took care of the rest. Now they're back at it again, impeding.
      - helpfulContrib 3y ago
        [flagged]
        catiopatio 3y ago
        It’s possible to simultaneously drive economic development, lift a populace out of poverty, and not construct an authoritarian regime. See also: Western Democracy. Remind me again which government was responsible for the deadliest famine in human history? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1127087/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1127087/
        helpfulContrib 3y ago
        [flagged]
        dang 3y ago
        The flamewar comments you posted to this thread have been so hellish, and you have broken the site guidelines so egregiously, that I've banned this account. I don't want to ban you, because you've also posted good comments–but we have to moderate based on the worst things an account does, and what you did in this thread is completely not ok. Nationalistic flamewar is not welcome on HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. Same for ideological flamewar and the other flavors too—and yes, the rules apply regardless of who you're for or against. If anyone would like confirmation of this, there's a counterparty to this comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37746593 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37746593. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
        monting 3y ago
        There's no free healthcare... Families are bankrupted by sickness in the family. If anyone did the "lifting", it's the global markets with their conditional entry into the WTO. Almost all the conditions are still not met and reneged on.
- cscurmudgeon 3y ago
  You have to swallow a lot of Chinese propaganda to feel compelled to post this. See, it is easy to play this game.
  - tehjoker 3y ago
    Not really, you just have to read enough history to know that the pre-war preparation phase is filled with vicious lies to dehumanize the other country. Additionally, even a cursory study of Chinese history will leave you with a different impression of what's going on.
    - Eisenstein 3y ago
      How will studying Chinese history make the current Chinese government's actions less terrible?
    - FredPret 3y ago
      Why, then, are you propagating vicious lies to make China look good? Are you a paid shill?
    - phantomathkg 3y ago
      Right. Then explain 1989 Tiananmen massacre to us? If this is not the atrocity that the Chinese Communist Party committed, what else? On what ground were you standing that believe a single party, totalitarian regime is the ethically correct way for the people?
      - palata 3y ago
        Would you say that invading Irak in 2003 was a good thing and showed how the US system was perfect?
        raverbashing 3y ago
        "but other people do bad things" is not an excuse, it's just deflection
- catiopatio 3y ago
  In another comment, you claimed that “Black Lives Matter leaders … died in mysterious accidents and car fires.” This ventures firmly into the realm of conspiracy theory. Do you feel you are presenting objective facts, as opposed to participating in disinformation or propaganda? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37722962 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37722962
- anoy8888 3y ago
  I am from Asia. If you think America is bad , wait till China becomes the number one power.You will realize the difference between a bully and a hitler
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kubb 3y ago
You would be much more credible if you said how China is “bad” (which is a moral judgement anyway). Instead you jumped straight to calling anyone who might disagree “uninformed”, a “shill”, and finally you admitted that you don’t understand how someone can hold a different view than you. It doesn’t inspire confidence in your analytical ability.
- Tainnor 3y ago
  > which is a moral judgement anyway There seems to be a certain subset of the HN population that thinks that "morality" is somehow a bad thing. Morality may be subjective and not "analytical", but it's also completely unavoidable to being a human person, and debates about moral behaviour are absolutely integral to human societies.
  - kubb 3y ago
    There seems to be a certain subset of the HN population that thinks they can get away with attributing an indefensible statement to others who didn't make it, and try to challenge them on it, but those folks shouldn't be treated seriously, just like Don Quixote shouldn't be treated seriously in his fight against windmills.
tut-urut-utut 3y ago
China doesn’t bomb foreign countries if they don’t agree to everything.
- NicoJuicy 3y ago
  China just takes over areas they claim as their own. They also don't let anyone disagree with them unpunished. That's not at all what the US does, you're talking about 20 years ago by now. China has much more sensitive toes and issues coming up are every year.
- zen928 3y ago
  Yeah, they just systematically genocide their citizens having the wrong heritage (Uyghurs), blackout entire cities that might dissent from their proposed governing systems (Hong Kong) and deny the right of sovereignty to established countries (Tibet, Taiwan) that "don't agree to everything". Not even the tip of the iceberg.

by smsm42 3y ago

tehjoker 3y ago

[flagged]

smsm42 3y ago
No I don't. I just have to be aware of the horrifying reality of what is happening in China.
- helpfulContrib 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - monting 3y ago
    They weren't "lifted". They stopped their policies, lasseize faire, and the market took care of the rest. Now they're back at it again, impeding.
    - helpfulContrib 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - catiopatio 3y ago
        It’s possible to simultaneously drive economic development, lift a populace out of poverty, and not construct an authoritarian regime. See also: Western Democracy. Remind me again which government was responsible for the deadliest famine in human history? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1127087/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1127087/
        helpfulContrib 3y ago
        [flagged]
        dang 3y ago
        The flamewar comments you posted to this thread have been so hellish, and you have broken the site guidelines so egregiously, that I've banned this account. I don't want to ban you, because you've also posted good comments–but we have to moderate based on the worst things an account does, and what you did in this thread is completely not ok. Nationalistic flamewar is not welcome on HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. Same for ideological flamewar and the other flavors too—and yes, the rules apply regardless of who you're for or against. If anyone would like confirmation of this, there's a counterparty to this comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37746593 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37746593. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
      - monting 3y ago
        There's no free healthcare... Families are bankrupted by sickness in the family. If anyone did the "lifting", it's the global markets with their conditional entry into the WTO. Almost all the conditions are still not met and reneged on.
cscurmudgeon 3y ago
You have to swallow a lot of Chinese propaganda to feel compelled to post this. See, it is easy to play this game.
- tehjoker 3y ago
  Not really, you just have to read enough history to know that the pre-war preparation phase is filled with vicious lies to dehumanize the other country. Additionally, even a cursory study of Chinese history will leave you with a different impression of what's going on.
  - Eisenstein 3y ago
    How will studying Chinese history make the current Chinese government's actions less terrible?
  - FredPret 3y ago
    Why, then, are you propagating vicious lies to make China look good? Are you a paid shill?
  - phantomathkg 3y ago
    Right. Then explain 1989 Tiananmen massacre to us? If this is not the atrocity that the Chinese Communist Party committed, what else? On what ground were you standing that believe a single party, totalitarian regime is the ethically correct way for the people?
    - palata 3y ago
      Would you say that invading Irak in 2003 was a good thing and showed how the US system was perfect?
      - raverbashing 3y ago
        "but other people do bad things" is not an excuse, it's just deflection
catiopatio 3y ago
In another comment, you claimed that “Black Lives Matter leaders … died in mysterious accidents and car fires.” This ventures firmly into the realm of conspiracy theory. Do you feel you are presenting objective facts, as opposed to participating in disinformation or propaganda? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37722962 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37722962
anoy8888 3y ago
I am from Asia. If you think America is bad , wait till China becomes the number one power.You will realize the difference between a bully and a hitler

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

kubb 3y ago

You would be much more credible if you said how China is “bad” (which is a moral judgement anyway). Instead you jumped straight to calling anyone who might disagree “uninformed”, a “shill”, and finally you admitted that you don’t understand how someone can hold a different view than you. It doesn’t inspire confidence in your analytical ability.

Tainnor 3y ago
> which is a moral judgement anyway There seems to be a certain subset of the HN population that thinks that "morality" is somehow a bad thing. Morality may be subjective and not "analytical", but it's also completely unavoidable to being a human person, and debates about moral behaviour are absolutely integral to human societies.
- kubb 3y ago
  There seems to be a certain subset of the HN population that thinks they can get away with attributing an indefensible statement to others who didn't make it, and try to challenge them on it, but those folks shouldn't be treated seriously, just like Don Quixote shouldn't be treated seriously in his fight against windmills.

tut-urut-utut 3y ago

China doesn’t bomb foreign countries if they don’t agree to everything.

NicoJuicy 3y ago
China just takes over areas they claim as their own. They also don't let anyone disagree with them unpunished. That's not at all what the US does, you're talking about 20 years ago by now. China has much more sensitive toes and issues coming up are every year.
zen928 3y ago
Yeah, they just systematically genocide their citizens having the wrong heritage (Uyghurs), blackout entire cities that might dissent from their proposed governing systems (Hong Kong) and deny the right of sovereignty to established countries (Tibet, Taiwan) that "don't agree to everything". Not even the tip of the iceberg.