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It's essentially because of western individualism, de-emphasizing the family unit and prioritizing individual fulfilment. Especially with women, if you believe
by tuatoru 3y ago
It's essentially because of western individualism, de-emphasizing the family unit and prioritizing individual fulfilment. Especially with women, if you believe the doctrine of female choice operates in the world.
Second generation and later of immigrants very rapidly adopt the social customs of the country they live in. This is seen everywhere. Vietnamese to Australia. Filipinas to the US. Congolese to Nigeria. Marocs to Spain.
- satvikpendem 3y agoLots of countries outside the west are not having kids, especially the collectivist cultures of Asia which directly contradicts your "western individualism" view.
- pphysch 3y agoIf you look at the actual countries, it is obvious that the young people not having kids are also relatively individualistic.
- satvikpendem 3y agoHow is that obvious? Where are the statistics to show that they are individualistic?
- pphysch 3y agoI'm not going to spend a bunch of time digging up statistics for you, because I think it is obvious for anyone who has spent significant time in urban areas of developed countries. The youth are obviously individualistic, focused on short-term personal fulfillment, and building a family is the opposite of that. There just aren't throngs of young people living "traditionally" (non-individualistically) yet not having kids.
- satvikpendem 3y agoThere's nothing "obvious" about that. If it's so obvious, you should be able to "dig up statistics." Otherwise, you're just using your anecdotes as some statement of fact. I could do the same and you would be unable to refute them, but I don't think that makes for very engaging discussion on this forum, then.
- wesapien 3y agoNo way. Youth actually want to belong to a group and fit in unless they are comfortable being outcasts in school (to to college) and not having a social life. The youth are obsessed with cool things and trendy/hip things. They are the most easy target for marketing and sales.
- tuatoru 3y agoWell, again coming from a "female choice" perspective, young Chinese women are striving to have careers (or at least fun) before starting a family. They are being told to do this, and most people conform to expectations. (Choice doesn't mean fully independent first-principles decision making.) The rhetoric is still about "increasing female labor force participation".[1] For clarity, the thing you do first is your priority. This is known as "revealed preference" in economics. And careers are individual things, not collective. Also for background, fertility declines secularly from mid-teens to mid forties where it goes to zero. Waiting has two costs: you have fewer years in which to have children, and you are less likely to have them in each year. (There is a third one in increased risk of congenital illness in the child too.) Nearly every woman knows these things. 1. https://thechinaproject.com/2022/03/08/women-at-work-in-china-in-2022/ https://thechinaproject.com/2022/03/08/women-at-work-in-chin...
- mensetmanusman 3y agoUm, China destroys the hypothesis.
- wkat4242 3y agoIndividualism is great. There's no point following books or customs from centuries ago when the world has long moved on. A farmer 200 years ago didn't really need to learn to read and write. Just pay off his patron landowner that was exploiting him and use whatever scraps that were left to try and survive. These days we can move beyond survival and into real fulfillment. And we need to, as well. We can't live without knowledge anymore. Critical thought brought us this far. And we're really far from extinction. We could do with a few billion less people if we want to be sustainable. The transition will be tough for those getting old but it'll be worth it.
- wesapien 3y agoI don't think so. You could go anywhere in the world before the 80s and they had mostly more children. Even the west. Female choice is a trade off not a benefit.