5 ms·

I prefer many different ways to look for a job but I try to prevent recruiters. Usually I don't look for "jobs" but for companies I would like to work for. If

I prefer many different ways to look for a job but I try to prevent recruiters. Usually I don't look for "jobs" but for companies I would like to work for. If there is not a job offer, you can still apply spontaneously. I also keep a list of these companies after applying successfully, because after a few years, this list might get interesting again. Some possibilities to find interesting companies are: - Look through job offering sites and the according company profiles (even if the offered job is not that interesting, the company can still be) - Look through the job history of my contacts in social media (linkedin, etc.) - Company rating sites (by employees, like glassdoor.com) - Using google maps to look for interesting tech companies in your area - Keeping an eye on local advertising boards - Talking to people The problem with recruiters is, that the company often has to pay an extra fee to THEM, if YOU get the job. These fees are extra expensive and offer no guarantees which often leads to a denial whereas you may have gotten the job if there had been no extra fee. An example: We had an interesting candidate provided by a recruiter. He seemed promising, was a perfect match for the team and showed potential, but we were not quite sure about his skills in detail and how he would develop. Paying a fee of > 10000 bucks (!) for the recruiter was too risky for our company, where otherwise hey would have gotten the job. We took someone else, who had way less potential but applied manually...

lukevp 3y ago
This seems strange to me… every recruiter I’ve worked with had a guarantee period, and if the employee didn’t work out, the fee was not owed. There’s also the option to do contract to hire. If the fee to hire someone is a deterrent, it doesn’t feel like a great sign of the company’s financial situation or how they view money. $10k extra for someone who may work out is not gonna break the bank when hiring employees that are paid well north of 100k. That’s actually an incredibly small fee compared to what I’ve seen. Employees typically cost the company around 1.5-2x the salary for all other overhead, so 10k is a drop in the bucket.
- sandreas 3y ago
  > every recruiter I’ve worked with had a guarantee period Maybe I was not told about it, I was not the person who denied the application - but at most it was a "6 months at work" guarantee, where the fee has to be paid as soon as the person has been 6 months employed at the company. > There’s also the option to do contract to hire. If the fee to hire someone is a deterrent, it doesn’t feel like a great sign of the company’s financial situation or how they view money. $10k extra for someone who may work out is not gonna break the bank when hiring employees that are paid well north of 100k. I agree (I'm no longer working for the company), but I made this experience more than once. In edge cases or cases where the application is about < 60k, > 10k (!) can be pretty much for a smaller company / startup, when the person is a "job hopper" that is only looking for a time filler job and leaves after a year. > Employees typically cost the company around 1.5-2x the salary for all other overhead, so 10k is a drop in the bucket. The fee was actually higher than 10k (I wrote >10k), but 10k was the fee, that would have been acceptable for the new applicant, that was denied. All in all I think recruiters are maybe an option for jobs >60k, but in most cases it is better to look for a job yourself. In my experience Recruiters are intrusive (I got nonsense emails all the time), don't provide jobs that aren't already there, don't do much research about the company, they have no "early access", they don't do much "work" you couldn't do yourself besides souping up your curriculum vitae. They are PAID for pleasing the companies, so they mostly don't care about your needs or if you fit the company. Pretty often they call you after a year in the new job they offered and tell you about this new absolutely unique application they now have for you... So NO, I don't like recruiters :-)
dr_kiszonka 3y ago
Very informative! How do you use Google Maps for finding tech companies? What keywords do you use?
- sandreas 3y ago
  I live in Germany, so it might differ from your country. Usually I use nearby search with "software" or "IT" for a few different locations and strategies: - My home address (here I look in a broader radius to not miss anything) - Areas with high IT company concentration (often I already see this high concentrated areas in the nearby home search) - Areas near tech universities (where the experts are) This should give you a brief overview but unfortunately this list is pretty unqualified. After this I tend to visit the homepages to get an impression of the company. It's a lot of work but mostly, you have to do this once and only give the list a refresh after a few years.
  - dr_kiszonka 3y ago
    Thanks, sandreas!

lukevp 3y ago

This seems strange to me… every recruiter I’ve worked with had a guarantee period, and if the employee didn’t work out, the fee was not owed. There’s also the option to do contract to hire. If the fee to hire someone is a deterrent, it doesn’t feel like a great sign of the company’s financial situation or how they view money. $10k extra for someone who may work out is not gonna break the bank when hiring employees that are paid well north of 100k. That’s actually an incredibly small fee compared to what I’ve seen. Employees typically cost the company around 1.5-2x the salary for all other overhead, so 10k is a drop in the bucket.

sandreas 3y ago
> every recruiter I’ve worked with had a guarantee period Maybe I was not told about it, I was not the person who denied the application - but at most it was a "6 months at work" guarantee, where the fee has to be paid as soon as the person has been 6 months employed at the company. > There’s also the option to do contract to hire. If the fee to hire someone is a deterrent, it doesn’t feel like a great sign of the company’s financial situation or how they view money. $10k extra for someone who may work out is not gonna break the bank when hiring employees that are paid well north of 100k. I agree (I'm no longer working for the company), but I made this experience more than once. In edge cases or cases where the application is about < 60k, > 10k (!) can be pretty much for a smaller company / startup, when the person is a "job hopper" that is only looking for a time filler job and leaves after a year. > Employees typically cost the company around 1.5-2x the salary for all other overhead, so 10k is a drop in the bucket. The fee was actually higher than 10k (I wrote >10k), but 10k was the fee, that would have been acceptable for the new applicant, that was denied. All in all I think recruiters are maybe an option for jobs >60k, but in most cases it is better to look for a job yourself. In my experience Recruiters are intrusive (I got nonsense emails all the time), don't provide jobs that aren't already there, don't do much research about the company, they have no "early access", they don't do much "work" you couldn't do yourself besides souping up your curriculum vitae. They are PAID for pleasing the companies, so they mostly don't care about your needs or if you fit the company. Pretty often they call you after a year in the new job they offered and tell you about this new absolutely unique application they now have for you... So NO, I don't like recruiters :-)

dr_kiszonka 3y ago

Very informative! How do you use Google Maps for finding tech companies? What keywords do you use?

sandreas 3y ago
I live in Germany, so it might differ from your country. Usually I use nearby search with "software" or "IT" for a few different locations and strategies: - My home address (here I look in a broader radius to not miss anything) - Areas with high IT company concentration (often I already see this high concentrated areas in the nearby home search) - Areas near tech universities (where the experts are) This should give you a brief overview but unfortunately this list is pretty unqualified. After this I tend to visit the homepages to get an impression of the company. It's a lot of work but mostly, you have to do this once and only give the list a refresh after a few years.
- dr_kiszonka 3y ago
  Thanks, sandreas!