5 ms·

Sorry but i see a very cost efficient waste of money

by Iulioh 3y ago

dukeyukey 3y ago
If that's all the local industry can produce, it's better than nothing.
- Iulioh 3y ago
  Honestly i could even argue that in fact it is not better than nothing. A bad solution is a problem because it would lead to not providing a good solution.
  - palmer_fox 3y ago
    This is a puzzling display of confidence. Have you ever slept on the ground after a long hard day of dealing with a natural or a man-made disaster? Getting into ANY bed is the only thing you can think about (this plus eating, of course). Being able to distribute 10K beds on the day they are first needed is an incredible advantage over having to wait for several days for more comfortable beds (it's not even clear whether they are indeed more comfortable).
    - Iulioh 3y ago
      Yeah, i would prefer a pile of random clothing on the ground to a fucking box i could fall from anytime i sneeze
  - dukeyukey 3y ago
    Would you prefer to sleep on the ground for a month before getting a camp-bed, or get one of these inside 24 hours? That's the trade-off here.
- ccooffee 3y ago
  If the "Cardboard Bed" was to be produced and used in the local area, I'd be a fan. Instead, these are created somewhere else and brought in. From the article: > "The cost of 1,000 beds for a refugee camp ranges from €100,000 to €200,000 (US$110 to $220) and it takes up to two weeks to produce them, another two weeks to ship them (by land or sea) and more than 24 hours to install and set them up”, said Juan Sanz, Humanitaria’s CEO. Humanitaria seems like they need to work on streamlining their manufacturing process if a thousand beds takes two weeks to produce. At 8 hours a day, 5 days a week this suggests 1000/80 = 12.5 beds per hour. This manufacturing appears to be simply cutting cardboard and packaging it. I'm really hoping this 12.5 beds per hour (one bed every 5 minutes) is inexperienced manual labor from one worker. If Humanitaria _is_ actually automating this process in their centralized location, why is it so slow? At the scales/speeds they are operating on, these beds cannot be produced rapidly in response to a crisis. Given the constant harping on low cost, I'm skeptical that these beds are actually even a good idea. I'm skeptical of the motivation to make a cut-every-corner "solution" for bedding needs. Are 1000 of these beds actually more useful than 100 more rugged beds? Outside of emergency situations which Humanitaria cannot produce sufficient quantities for, I'd prefer 100 real beds to 1000 cardboard beds.
  - kahunalu 3y ago
    > "By comparison, 1,000 Humanitaria beds cost $17,000, can be produced in hours on existing, readily-available packaging machinery in every major city in the world, delivered folded flat by plane next day and can be set up in 20 minutes. The first 24 hours is critical in disaster response and this invention brings massive promise!" You misinterpretted that portion of the artical, the CEO is contrasting their beds to what 1000 beds currently take to set-up.
  - palmer_fox 3y ago
    I am sorry? You would "prefer" 100 real beds to 1000 cardboard beds when there is a need for 1000 beds? That's nice, the rest 900 people can sleep on the ground as along as this is your preference.
    - throw9away6 3y ago
      Yes 100/1000 people on beds is preferable to 1000 that have beds today and no beds tomorrow or the rest of their stay.
      - palmer_fox 3y ago
        Do you think anyone involved in this project ever tested and evaluated this bed? How do you think businesses work in general? They built a bed that lasts only 1 day but decided to go ahead and ship it to disaster areas because why not. Why is it always some dude on an Internet forum that knows better than a business dedicated to solving a particular problem...
        Iulioh 3y ago
        Yeah, i think businesses makes bad decisions for the public interest because the business does care about it's profits and not the public interest , that seems about right.
        throw9away6 3y ago
        I’m sure they did but in typical sv startup culture they probably did not consider all the design objectives that a product they serves refugee camps needs to meet. Need a bed vs need a bed that can survive a hostile environment are 2 different objectives. Cardboard beds were tried at the Japan onlymics btw and they weren’t great there either

Sorry but i see a very cost efficient waste of money

by Iulioh 3y ago

Sorry but i see a very cost efficient waste of money

dukeyukey 3y ago

If that's all the local industry can produce, it's better than nothing.

Iulioh 3y ago
Honestly i could even argue that in fact it is not better than nothing. A bad solution is a problem because it would lead to not providing a good solution.
- palmer_fox 3y ago
  This is a puzzling display of confidence. Have you ever slept on the ground after a long hard day of dealing with a natural or a man-made disaster? Getting into ANY bed is the only thing you can think about (this plus eating, of course). Being able to distribute 10K beds on the day they are first needed is an incredible advantage over having to wait for several days for more comfortable beds (it's not even clear whether they are indeed more comfortable).
  - Iulioh 3y ago
    Yeah, i would prefer a pile of random clothing on the ground to a fucking box i could fall from anytime i sneeze
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  Would you prefer to sleep on the ground for a month before getting a camp-bed, or get one of these inside 24 hours? That's the trade-off here.
ccooffee 3y ago
If the "Cardboard Bed" was to be produced and used in the local area, I'd be a fan. Instead, these are created somewhere else and brought in. From the article: > "The cost of 1,000 beds for a refugee camp ranges from €100,000 to €200,000 (US$110 to $220) and it takes up to two weeks to produce them, another two weeks to ship them (by land or sea) and more than 24 hours to install and set them up”, said Juan Sanz, Humanitaria’s CEO. Humanitaria seems like they need to work on streamlining their manufacturing process if a thousand beds takes two weeks to produce. At 8 hours a day, 5 days a week this suggests 1000/80 = 12.5 beds per hour. This manufacturing appears to be simply cutting cardboard and packaging it. I'm really hoping this 12.5 beds per hour (one bed every 5 minutes) is inexperienced manual labor from one worker. If Humanitaria _is_ actually automating this process in their centralized location, why is it so slow? At the scales/speeds they are operating on, these beds cannot be produced rapidly in response to a crisis. Given the constant harping on low cost, I'm skeptical that these beds are actually even a good idea. I'm skeptical of the motivation to make a cut-every-corner "solution" for bedding needs. Are 1000 of these beds actually more useful than 100 more rugged beds? Outside of emergency situations which Humanitaria cannot produce sufficient quantities for, I'd prefer 100 real beds to 1000 cardboard beds.
- kahunalu 3y ago
  > "By comparison, 1,000 Humanitaria beds cost $17,000, can be produced in hours on existing, readily-available packaging machinery in every major city in the world, delivered folded flat by plane next day and can be set up in 20 minutes. The first 24 hours is critical in disaster response and this invention brings massive promise!" You misinterpretted that portion of the artical, the CEO is contrasting their beds to what 1000 beds currently take to set-up.
- palmer_fox 3y ago
  I am sorry? You would "prefer" 100 real beds to 1000 cardboard beds when there is a need for 1000 beds? That's nice, the rest 900 people can sleep on the ground as along as this is your preference.
  - throw9away6 3y ago
    Yes 100/1000 people on beds is preferable to 1000 that have beds today and no beds tomorrow or the rest of their stay.
    - palmer_fox 3y ago
      Do you think anyone involved in this project ever tested and evaluated this bed? How do you think businesses work in general? They built a bed that lasts only 1 day but decided to go ahead and ship it to disaster areas because why not. Why is it always some dude on an Internet forum that knows better than a business dedicated to solving a particular problem...
      - Iulioh 3y ago
        Yeah, i think businesses makes bad decisions for the public interest because the business does care about it's profits and not the public interest , that seems about right.
      - throw9away6 3y ago
        I’m sure they did but in typical sv startup culture they probably did not consider all the design objectives that a product they serves refugee camps needs to meet. Need a bed vs need a bed that can survive a hostile environment are 2 different objectives. Cardboard beds were tried at the Japan onlymics btw and they weren’t great there either