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I think this release shows a fundamental cultural difference. Over here in Europe, people have a much more relaxed approach to AI safety. In discussions with m

I think this release shows a fundamental cultural difference. Over here in Europe, people have a much more relaxed approach to AI safety. In discussions with my friends, if people are worried about anything, it's deepfakes, voice cloning and fake revenge porn, not some text generator saying something "offensive" that you could have googled anyway. The most common reaction to Open AI's policies is an eye roll and complaints about "those Americans." Outside the English-speaking world, identity politics didn't really take hold. To give just one example, the concept of "cancellation" is somewhere between confusing and scary for your run-of-the-mill European. Things like the blackface issue, affirmative action or the Rowling debacle don't make "cultural sense" here, even to those who lean left. An European leftist is much closer to an American leftist of 2010 than to one of 2023. To be entirely clear, I don't fully agree with that perspective, there are good ideas worth taking from the American way of thinking, but this is the way many people think here. Most models released so far were American (or Chinese, but that's an entirely different can of worms). I'm not surprised that a European company gave us something like this.

ComputerGuru 3y ago
From what I know and have seen, I don’t think there is any single such “Europe” that you can broadly portray in such a fashion. For example, there’s Eastern and Western Europe, there are Germanic countries and Mediterranean countries, there are so many other splits that I find it hard to believe your portrayal could really and truly genuinely encompass them all.
- Pannoniae 3y ago
  Yes, Europe is very diverse. (in the original sense of the meaning) However, this is almost a shared European value which OP describes, except maybe in parts of the UK. The whole hyper-individualistic identity-based thinking (luckily, I'd say) didn't really get a hold in Europe, the whole "you can search for a recipe for meth, this is horrible and should be censored" line of thought is just outside the Overton window of most Europeans. So yes, while you can't really generalise Europeans in the same way, this is almost a perfect counterexample to that.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - Aspie96 3y ago
    I don't think it's hyper-individualistic. In fact, it's the opposite of that. It groups people by random characteristics and then it describes "identity" as the collection of these characteristics, rather than something unique to each of us. It's anti-individualistic, if anything.
- Aspie96 3y ago
  Indeed there is not, but there is such single thing as "United States" (even though thee are multiple states) and certain forms of "activism" are specific to the US, or at most the anglosphere. What Europe has is that it's Western, but it's not the US.
Aspie96 3y ago
> Over here in Europe, people have a much more relaxed approach to AI safety. And to most things, to be honest. Politics in Europe (I'm Italian) is nuts. But it doesn't even remotely approach the nut-level of the USA. > Outside the English-speaking world, identity politics didn't really take hold. To some extent it does, but only as indirect influence from the anglosphere. In fact, most of the linguistic games Americans like to play to pander to one or another group don't translate well, if at all. > An European leftist is much closer to an American leftist of 2010 than to one of 2023. European leftists might be much at the left of Americans when it comes to economics. An Italian right-winger is probably at the left of an American left-winger. Socially, the focus tend to be on actual issues and actual discrimination. Trying to continuously change the way language is used gets nothing but the ridicule it deserves. Meanwhile anglophones decided to take offense at the name of the default Git branch.
- squigz 3y ago
  Could you elaborate on what you mean by "linguistic games"?
sterlind 3y ago
Is blackface really accepted in Europe? Like, minstrel shows with white people putting shoe polish on their faces and acting like a bunch of stereotypes? saying "mammy?" surely not, right?
- TheHappyOddish 3y ago
  I don't think anyone's queuing up for shows, but it doesn't hold the same cultural history, so the sensitivity and care is much less. Blackface as a subject (e.g the episode of Scrubs where it's just a funny bit) doesn't spark any debate, removal or cancellation. It's seen in context.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> Outside the English-speaking world, identity politics didn't really take hold. The idea that identity politics (especially considering ethnic and religious identity politics, the two most significant kinds anywhere) are uniquely a feature of the English speaking world is... amusing. > Things like the blackface issue, affirmative action or the Rowling debacle don't make "cultural sense" here, even to those who lean left. Blackface specifically is about a particular manifestation of racism in American history, so in that point it makes sense. Affirmative action, though, particularly on gender, ethnic, and/or linguistic-community grounds (and often in the strict quota sense that has long been illegal in the US) is enormously common in non-English-speaking European countries (and, from what I can tell, faces very similar controversies to those over affirmative action in the US; unlike the US, the biggest issue isn't “race” in the narrow traditional sense, but then Europe has much less racial diversity to start with.)

ComputerGuru 3y ago

From what I know and have seen, I don’t think there is any single such “Europe” that you can broadly portray in such a fashion. For example, there’s Eastern and Western Europe, there are Germanic countries and Mediterranean countries, there are so many other splits that I find it hard to believe your portrayal could really and truly genuinely encompass them all.

Pannoniae 3y ago
Yes, Europe is very diverse. (in the original sense of the meaning) However, this is almost a shared European value which OP describes, except maybe in parts of the UK. The whole hyper-individualistic identity-based thinking (luckily, I'd say) didn't really get a hold in Europe, the whole "you can search for a recipe for meth, this is horrible and should be censored" line of thought is just outside the Overton window of most Europeans. So yes, while you can't really generalise Europeans in the same way, this is almost a perfect counterexample to that.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Aspie96 3y ago
  I don't think it's hyper-individualistic. In fact, it's the opposite of that. It groups people by random characteristics and then it describes "identity" as the collection of these characteristics, rather than something unique to each of us. It's anti-individualistic, if anything.
Aspie96 3y ago
Indeed there is not, but there is such single thing as "United States" (even though thee are multiple states) and certain forms of "activism" are specific to the US, or at most the anglosphere. What Europe has is that it's Western, but it's not the US.

Aspie96 3y ago

> Over here in Europe, people have a much more relaxed approach to AI safety. And to most things, to be honest. Politics in Europe (I'm Italian) is nuts. But it doesn't even remotely approach the nut-level of the USA. > Outside the English-speaking world, identity politics didn't really take hold. To some extent it does, but only as indirect influence from the anglosphere. In fact, most of the linguistic games Americans like to play to pander to one or another group don't translate well, if at all. > An European leftist is much closer to an American leftist of 2010 than to one of 2023. European leftists might be much at the left of Americans when it comes to economics. An Italian right-winger is probably at the left of an American left-winger. Socially, the focus tend to be on actual issues and actual discrimination. Trying to continuously change the way language is used gets nothing but the ridicule it deserves. Meanwhile anglophones decided to take offense at the name of the default Git branch.

squigz 3y ago
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "linguistic games"?

sterlind 3y ago

Is blackface really accepted in Europe? Like, minstrel shows with white people putting shoe polish on their faces and acting like a bunch of stereotypes? saying "mammy?" surely not, right?

TheHappyOddish 3y ago
I don't think anyone's queuing up for shows, but it doesn't hold the same cultural history, so the sensitivity and care is much less. Blackface as a subject (e.g the episode of Scrubs where it's just a funny bit) doesn't spark any debate, removal or cancellation. It's seen in context.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> Outside the English-speaking world, identity politics didn't really take hold. The idea that identity politics (especially considering ethnic and religious identity politics, the two most significant kinds anywhere) are uniquely a feature of the English speaking world is... amusing. > Things like the blackface issue, affirmative action or the Rowling debacle don't make "cultural sense" here, even to those who lean left. Blackface specifically is about a particular manifestation of racism in American history, so in that point it makes sense. Affirmative action, though, particularly on gender, ethnic, and/or linguistic-community grounds (and often in the strict quota sense that has long been illegal in the US) is enormously common in non-English-speaking European countries (and, from what I can tell, faces very similar controversies to those over affirmative action in the US; unlike the US, the biggest issue isn't “race” in the narrow traditional sense, but then Europe has much less racial diversity to start with.)