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So you're saying that Russia under sanctions is not weaker than it would be otherwise? Crippling the Russian economy, their ability to project power and the li

by qwytw 3y ago

So you're saying that Russia under sanctions is not weaker than it would be otherwise? Crippling the Russian economy, their ability to project power and the living conditions for middle class Russians (at the end of the day they are to blame for the war) seem like good things. > don't see the idiocy Please do suggest any less 'idiotic' options? > effect of letting the world know that we wield economic power as a weapon I guess it's still preferable to nukes and carpet bombing (which were necessary the last time fascist imperialism was left unchecked...)

oceanplexian 3y ago
Yes, Russia is "weaker" than it would be otherwise. For now, until they economically align with China and circumvent the sanctions completely, and form a series of Axis powers, which is literally what happened the "last time fascist imperialism went unchecked" and turned into the deadliest conflict in human history. The least idiotic option is diplomacy. As for nukes and carpet bombing, that was never on the table. Russia has nukes the same as the United States.
wkat4242 3y ago
Middle class Russians are not to blame for the war. They're mostly city dwellers and generally know how the world works, usually hate the regime because they are losing their tech jobs and western goods but they can't do anything about it because they prefer life outside of prison. The big masses of poorer rural people are generally more indoctrinated by propaganda and really believe in it. They're the ones voting for Putin (though I doubt elections are fair anyway). They're more what keeps the regime in power but I don't think you can blame them either. They simply have too little access to uncensored information.
- qwytw 3y ago
  > they can't do anything about it because they prefer life outside of prison So they can do something after all? Violence is always an option (if you have no other options).
throw9away6 3y ago
It’s not clear that it is. Countries in crisis often try to impose capital controls to stem the outflow of cash and prevent collapse but it’s super unpopular and causes extreme internal instability. The sanctions created the most effective Capitol controls the world has ever seen resulting in all money getting trapped in Russia and may have actually prevented a major collapse that would have happened normally if Russia had to impose those same controls from within. Without sanctions any money from Russian natural resources would have simply escaped and been used to buy dollars and foreign real estate. With sanctions Russian oligarchs had nowhere to exfoliate their loot and had to reinvest internally which may have prevented the collapse we wanted to create. Economist are going to be writing books for decades analyzing if the sanctions were effective or counter productive.

by qwytw 3y ago

oceanplexian 3y ago

Yes, Russia is "weaker" than it would be otherwise. For now, until they economically align with China and circumvent the sanctions completely, and form a series of Axis powers, which is literally what happened the "last time fascist imperialism went unchecked" and turned into the deadliest conflict in human history. The least idiotic option is diplomacy. As for nukes and carpet bombing, that was never on the table. Russia has nukes the same as the United States.

wkat4242 3y ago

Middle class Russians are not to blame for the war. They're mostly city dwellers and generally know how the world works, usually hate the regime because they are losing their tech jobs and western goods but they can't do anything about it because they prefer life outside of prison. The big masses of poorer rural people are generally more indoctrinated by propaganda and really believe in it. They're the ones voting for Putin (though I doubt elections are fair anyway). They're more what keeps the regime in power but I don't think you can blame them either. They simply have too little access to uncensored information.

qwytw 3y ago
> they can't do anything about it because they prefer life outside of prison So they can do something after all? Violence is always an option (if you have no other options).

throw9away6 3y ago

It’s not clear that it is. Countries in crisis often try to impose capital controls to stem the outflow of cash and prevent collapse but it’s super unpopular and causes extreme internal instability. The sanctions created the most effective Capitol controls the world has ever seen resulting in all money getting trapped in Russia and may have actually prevented a major collapse that would have happened normally if Russia had to impose those same controls from within. Without sanctions any money from Russian natural resources would have simply escaped and been used to buy dollars and foreign real estate. With sanctions Russian oligarchs had nowhere to exfoliate their loot and had to reinvest internally which may have prevented the collapse we wanted to create. Economist are going to be writing books for decades analyzing if the sanctions were effective or counter productive.