4 ms·

> How can someone who likes viewing this look at a child on the street and not see them as a sexual object? You have causation backwards. They look at it becau

> How can someone who likes viewing this look at a child on the street and not see them as a sexual object? You have causation backwards. They look at it because they see children sexually, not the other way around. If it worked how you propose, then homosexuality could be changed to heterosexuality simply by viewing the right porn - and vice-versa. If you think gender is different than age, try making yourself attracted to 70+ year-old women by viewing porn featuring them.

camhart 3y ago
Its not backwards. It may be circular. They view it because they want to, but viewing it doesn't satisfy the craving long term. It reinforces it.
- SenAnder 3y ago
  Current evidence suggests that it is not - as the availability of porn grew, incidence of rape fell [1]. Perhaps child porn is a special case where it works the opposite, but I know of no evidence to suggest this. [1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-sunny-side-of-smut/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-sunny-side-of...
  - camhart 3y ago
    There are ample studies that show that porn use does increase rape. The results are mixed. Declaring that "current evidence" says otherwise is false. Update: See studies referenced at https://fightthenewdrug.org/violence-and-rape-connected-with-porn/ https://fightthenewdrug.org/violence-and-rape-connected-with.... The source the parent provided does not claim what the parent claims. The article starts with a caveat stating "for most people".
    - infinitezest 3y ago
      Parent comment posted a source with their claim. Do you have any for yours?
      - camhart 3y ago
        The source they posted doesn't conclude what they claimed. It starts with "For most people". See https://fightthenewdrug.org/violence-and-rape-connected-with-porn/ https://fightthenewdrug.org/violence-and-rape-connected-with... (it links to many different studies, sources at the bottom of the article).
        SenAnder 3y ago
        > The source they posted doesn't conclude what they claimed. I wrote: "as the availability of porn grew, incidence of rape fell" The article I linked stated: "The same goes for other countries: as access to pornography grew in once restrictive Japan, China and Denmark in the past 40 years, rape statistics plummeted."
    - btilly 3y ago
      No. There are ample studies that show that men who rape, are interested in porn. That doesn't indicate whether porn substitutes for the desire to rape, or leads to the desire. Studies that look at availability of porn vs rape do indicate that porn is a substitute for rape among those inclined, and not a cause of further desire. There are still flaws because of the existence of confounding factors. But it is the best that we have.
    - leptons 3y ago
      There are plenty of studies that show that more porn has lead to less rape, in many different countries. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201601/evidence-mounts-more-porn-less-sexual-assault https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201601... This has been studied for decades. Please provide some evidence to support your claims.
      - Kretinsky 3y ago
        PsychologyToday is a pro-porn outlet that likes to cherry pick badly designed studies. Anyone familiar with porn can only see that creating porn involves sexual violence in most cases. There is a wealth of litterature showing that watching violent porn will induce more violent sexual behaviors. See for instance the litterature review here: https://psyarxiv.com/cw24q/download/?format=pdf https://psyarxiv.com/cw24q/download/?format=pdf Also: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/ "Lifetime pornography use was reported by most respondents. After adjusting for age, age at first porn exposure, and current relationship status, the associations between pornography use and sexual behaviors was statistically significant" In general, I find the idea quite simple that showing a behavior in an enticing form to someone will lead to an adoption of the behavior. Otherwise you ought to explain this to advertisers, I'm sure they'd be happy to save hundred of billions in tv ads in the US.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        leptons 3y ago
        >In general, I find the idea quite simple that showing a behavior in an enticing form to someone will lead to an adoption of the behavior. Again, the same "violent video games cause violence" nonsense is being used here to justify your personal (but wrong) feelings about pornography. >Otherwise you ought to explain this to advertisers, I'm sure they'd be happy to save hundred of billions in tv ads in the US. Is this a reference to "sex sells"? Sorry but so far as we know, nobody ever raped someone because they saw a suggestive television commercial. But please go ahead and find some evidence of that. >PsychologyToday is a pro-porn outlet that likes to cherry pick badly designed studies. You can say that but your opinion doesn't make that statement true, and you yourself are cherry-picking one out of many other studies that contradict what you want to be true. >Anyone familiar with porn can only see that creating porn involves sexual violence in most cases. That's false, that's your opinion and it is quite divorced from reality. There are many studies showing quite the opposite of what you think is going on. - While one study shows 88% of porn depicts violence against women, *five other studies estimate between 2% and 36%*. - Studies on the amount of violence against women in porn vary widely because some count consensual BDSM as "violence" while others don't. - If 2% of porn videos depict violence against women, it could be said that porn depicts less violence against women than TV cop shows. Yes, I'm using this site again because your personal opinion of the site means absolutely nothing given you're using your feelings to assert a falsehood: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201606/how-much-porn-depicts-violence-against-women https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201606... "New research findings published in the journal Trauma, Violence & Abuse suggest there is no connection between pornography consumption and sexual violence" https://www.utsa.edu/today/2020/08/story/pornography-sex-crimes-study.html https://www.utsa.edu/today/2020/08/story/pornography-sex-cri... Since the availability of internet porn, rape rates have steadily declined over time. https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvsv9410.pdf https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvsv9410.pdf Women enjoy watching porn too, in case you're too puritan to realize that. Sure it's easy to find studies that agree with your world view, because other people use their feelings more than evidence too. You want to believe it's true, so you find others that have the same bias. But there's far more studies and evidence that porn does not cause sexual violence, and most porn produced isn't violent in nature although the classification of "violence" can mean different things to different people, and in your case it seems like any sexual act that is filmed would count as "violence".
  - Kretinsky 3y ago
    Porn induces fetishes and behavior. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/ "Lifetime pornography use was reported by most respondents. After adjusting for age, age at first porn exposure, and current relationship status, the associations between pornography use and sexual behaviors was statistically significant" The mere fact that facial ejaculation is mainstream is good example of this. Inducing taste for CSAM in the mainstream will have devastating consequences as many people won't have the impulse control to refrain from satisfying their fetishes and the victims are powerless.
Kretinsky 3y ago
You can induce fetishes and sexual tastes to someone by repeatedly showing him enticing pictures. This is why alternative sexual practices have exploded as porn got mainstream, or movies/books like 50 Shades of Grey (aptly called "Mommy porn") got mainstream. People aren't born with a set of fetishes in their head. I'm not either arguing for a "think of the children" line or reasoning, creating AI generated CSAM content is a niche activity, so forbidding it won't affect our freedoms significatively.
- Al0neStar 3y ago
  There is no evidence that fetishes could be "induced".
  - Kretinsky 3y ago
    https://psyarxiv.com/cw24q/download/?format=pdf https://psyarxiv.com/cw24q/download/?format=pdf Here check the litterature review. Also the simple fact that alternative practices have boomed with porn being mainstream is a simple case of induced fetishes. We see very few amateurs of latex parties or shibari in Amazonian tribes for some unknown reasons. [Edit] better paper: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/ "Lifetime pornography use was reported by most respondents. After adjusting for age, age at first porn exposure, and current relationship status, the associations between pornography use and sexual behaviors was statistically significant"
    - Al0neStar 3y ago
      The first paper in the literature review and its citations argue how popular tv shows like "The Twilight Diaries" and "Riverdale" normalize rape and violence against women, I can't take it seriously.
      - Kretinsky 3y ago
        It's so tiresome. How do you explain that facial ejaculation, which is a specific porn move, has become something common nowadays, while 100 hears ago, not even prostitutes would do? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/

camhart 3y ago

Its not backwards. It may be circular. They view it because they want to, but viewing it doesn't satisfy the craving long term. It reinforces it.

SenAnder 3y ago
Current evidence suggests that it is not - as the availability of porn grew, incidence of rape fell [1]. Perhaps child porn is a special case where it works the opposite, but I know of no evidence to suggest this. [1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-sunny-side-of-smut/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-sunny-side-of...
- camhart 3y ago
  There are ample studies that show that porn use does increase rape. The results are mixed. Declaring that "current evidence" says otherwise is false. Update: See studies referenced at https://fightthenewdrug.org/violence-and-rape-connected-with-porn/ https://fightthenewdrug.org/violence-and-rape-connected-with.... The source the parent provided does not claim what the parent claims. The article starts with a caveat stating "for most people".
  - infinitezest 3y ago
    Parent comment posted a source with their claim. Do you have any for yours?
    - camhart 3y ago
      The source they posted doesn't conclude what they claimed. It starts with "For most people". See https://fightthenewdrug.org/violence-and-rape-connected-with-porn/ https://fightthenewdrug.org/violence-and-rape-connected-with... (it links to many different studies, sources at the bottom of the article).
      - SenAnder 3y ago
        > The source they posted doesn't conclude what they claimed. I wrote: "as the availability of porn grew, incidence of rape fell" The article I linked stated: "The same goes for other countries: as access to pornography grew in once restrictive Japan, China and Denmark in the past 40 years, rape statistics plummeted."
  - btilly 3y ago
    No. There are ample studies that show that men who rape, are interested in porn. That doesn't indicate whether porn substitutes for the desire to rape, or leads to the desire. Studies that look at availability of porn vs rape do indicate that porn is a substitute for rape among those inclined, and not a cause of further desire. There are still flaws because of the existence of confounding factors. But it is the best that we have.
  - leptons 3y ago
    There are plenty of studies that show that more porn has lead to less rape, in many different countries. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201601/evidence-mounts-more-porn-less-sexual-assault https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201601... This has been studied for decades. Please provide some evidence to support your claims.
    - Kretinsky 3y ago
      PsychologyToday is a pro-porn outlet that likes to cherry pick badly designed studies. Anyone familiar with porn can only see that creating porn involves sexual violence in most cases. There is a wealth of litterature showing that watching violent porn will induce more violent sexual behaviors. See for instance the litterature review here: https://psyarxiv.com/cw24q/download/?format=pdf https://psyarxiv.com/cw24q/download/?format=pdf Also: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/ "Lifetime pornography use was reported by most respondents. After adjusting for age, age at first porn exposure, and current relationship status, the associations between pornography use and sexual behaviors was statistically significant" In general, I find the idea quite simple that showing a behavior in an enticing form to someone will lead to an adoption of the behavior. Otherwise you ought to explain this to advertisers, I'm sure they'd be happy to save hundred of billions in tv ads in the US.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - leptons 3y ago
        >In general, I find the idea quite simple that showing a behavior in an enticing form to someone will lead to an adoption of the behavior. Again, the same "violent video games cause violence" nonsense is being used here to justify your personal (but wrong) feelings about pornography. >Otherwise you ought to explain this to advertisers, I'm sure they'd be happy to save hundred of billions in tv ads in the US. Is this a reference to "sex sells"? Sorry but so far as we know, nobody ever raped someone because they saw a suggestive television commercial. But please go ahead and find some evidence of that. >PsychologyToday is a pro-porn outlet that likes to cherry pick badly designed studies. You can say that but your opinion doesn't make that statement true, and you yourself are cherry-picking one out of many other studies that contradict what you want to be true. >Anyone familiar with porn can only see that creating porn involves sexual violence in most cases. That's false, that's your opinion and it is quite divorced from reality. There are many studies showing quite the opposite of what you think is going on. - While one study shows 88% of porn depicts violence against women, *five other studies estimate between 2% and 36%*. - Studies on the amount of violence against women in porn vary widely because some count consensual BDSM as "violence" while others don't. - If 2% of porn videos depict violence against women, it could be said that porn depicts less violence against women than TV cop shows. Yes, I'm using this site again because your personal opinion of the site means absolutely nothing given you're using your feelings to assert a falsehood: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201606/how-much-porn-depicts-violence-against-women https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201606... "New research findings published in the journal Trauma, Violence & Abuse suggest there is no connection between pornography consumption and sexual violence" https://www.utsa.edu/today/2020/08/story/pornography-sex-crimes-study.html https://www.utsa.edu/today/2020/08/story/pornography-sex-cri... Since the availability of internet porn, rape rates have steadily declined over time. https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvsv9410.pdf https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvsv9410.pdf Women enjoy watching porn too, in case you're too puritan to realize that. Sure it's easy to find studies that agree with your world view, because other people use their feelings more than evidence too. You want to believe it's true, so you find others that have the same bias. But there's far more studies and evidence that porn does not cause sexual violence, and most porn produced isn't violent in nature although the classification of "violence" can mean different things to different people, and in your case it seems like any sexual act that is filmed would count as "violence".
- Kretinsky 3y ago
  Porn induces fetishes and behavior. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/ "Lifetime pornography use was reported by most respondents. After adjusting for age, age at first porn exposure, and current relationship status, the associations between pornography use and sexual behaviors was statistically significant" The mere fact that facial ejaculation is mainstream is good example of this. Inducing taste for CSAM in the mainstream will have devastating consequences as many people won't have the impulse control to refrain from satisfying their fetishes and the victims are powerless.

Kretinsky 3y ago

You can induce fetishes and sexual tastes to someone by repeatedly showing him enticing pictures. This is why alternative sexual practices have exploded as porn got mainstream, or movies/books like 50 Shades of Grey (aptly called "Mommy porn") got mainstream. People aren't born with a set of fetishes in their head. I'm not either arguing for a "think of the children" line or reasoning, creating AI generated CSAM content is a niche activity, so forbidding it won't affect our freedoms significatively.

Al0neStar 3y ago
There is no evidence that fetishes could be "induced".
- Kretinsky 3y ago
  https://psyarxiv.com/cw24q/download/?format=pdf https://psyarxiv.com/cw24q/download/?format=pdf Here check the litterature review. Also the simple fact that alternative practices have boomed with porn being mainstream is a simple case of induced fetishes. We see very few amateurs of latex parties or shibari in Amazonian tribes for some unknown reasons. [Edit] better paper: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/ "Lifetime pornography use was reported by most respondents. After adjusting for age, age at first porn exposure, and current relationship status, the associations between pornography use and sexual behaviors was statistically significant"
  - Al0neStar 3y ago
    The first paper in the literature review and its citations argue how popular tv shows like "The Twilight Diaries" and "Riverdale" normalize rape and violence against women, I can't take it seriously.
    - Kretinsky 3y ago
      It's so tiresome. How do you explain that facial ejaculation, which is a specific porn move, has become something common nowadays, while 100 hears ago, not even prostitutes would do? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/