3 ms·

It shouldn't be too expensive, but before you put in equipment and pretend to be the phone network, you need to make sure that you're hitting regulatory limits

by mlyle 3y ago

It shouldn't be too expensive, but before you put in equipment and pretend to be the phone network, you need to make sure that you're hitting regulatory limits on the amount of RF leaking out. Doing a good enough job to hit that above a gigahertz--- including things like conducted RF, and validating with measurements-- is gonna cost a bit more than you describe.

evilduck 3y ago
Fine, for permitting and regulations and inspections, let’s 100x the cost and say it’s an annual expense too. This is still well within Google’s budgets to provide to their Android teams.
- taway1237 3y ago
  This discussion is moot btw. Google already has faraday cage and bts equipment, at least in the London office (6ps) where a large part of the Android team is located. And obviously so - the costs involved are a rounding error for Google. The problem must be somewhere else.
numpad0 3y ago
[1]. $1k, -95dB to 3GHz, in stock, manufacturer standard I/O plates sold separately. I think there's zero room for hypotheticals and challenges to talk about setting these up if you ask not webdevs but actual phone people. 1: https://jretest.com/product/jre-0912/ https://jretest.com/product/jre-0912/
- mlyle 3y ago
  Who's the person who crawls into the tiny box and makes sure the dialer UI is doing the right thing, given that is what our primary concern is? We've been talking about the cost of making a screened room. "Turnkey" ones cost about $20-50k, but you're going to pay contractors a fair bit beyond that. Not to mention whatever equipment you're putting inside. https://www.ramayes.com/Refurbished_Radio_Frequency_Shielded_Rooms.htm https://www.ramayes.com/Refurbished_Radio_Frequency_Shielded...
  - Kwpolska 3y ago
    $50k is chump change for Google. Regardless, there are costs and regulations associated with making a phone, and if you aren’t willing to adhere to that, you’d better keep making search engines and other websites.
    - mlyle 3y ago
      > $50k is chump change for Google. c.f. my comment: > > > It shouldn't be too expensive, but People just don't read and understand that you can agree with the broader scope of comment but not the details.
  - numpad0 3y ago
    Our primary concern is dialer crashing! I don't understand why you're trying to shift the blame away from Google. That's just stupid.
    - mlyle 3y ago
      > Our primary concern is dialer crashing! Yes, so being able to use the phone UI is important for qualitative testing. > I don't understand why you're trying to shift the blame away from Google. That's just stupid. I feel like you didn't read my comment. I stated that a screened room isn't prohibitively expensive, but can't be delivered for the suggested $10k. In another comment, I said "Society spends a few billion dollars a year on E911 and related infrastructure. To have faith in it eroded because of a little bit of slipshod validation by phone vendors is a false economy." Why isn't it possible to have nuanced discussions-- to condemn Google's failure here, but also to suggest that the capital expense to give people realistic test environments is probably higher than others are suggesting? Frankly, you're being abrasive.
      - numpad0 3y ago
        You must have the UI? Call your factory, ask them make an extra ICE and hook it up to the simulator through an attenuator and shielded cables. Easy. Cost couple cars worth, so what. Add noises, simulate phasing, handover, do anything you want to. premises is, you're a top mass market smart phone manufacturer, and Google, both of that at the same time. No, you're trying to find a way to make it sound impossible. But what you're saying is more along, probably, "finding a parking lot to test brakes is impossible even for a car company". Something real stupid as that.

by mlyle 3y ago

evilduck 3y ago

Fine, for permitting and regulations and inspections, let’s 100x the cost and say it’s an annual expense too. This is still well within Google’s budgets to provide to their Android teams.

taway1237 3y ago
This discussion is moot btw. Google already has faraday cage and bts equipment, at least in the London office (6ps) where a large part of the Android team is located. And obviously so - the costs involved are a rounding error for Google. The problem must be somewhere else.

numpad0 3y ago

[1]. $1k, -95dB to 3GHz, in stock, manufacturer standard I/O plates sold separately. I think there's zero room for hypotheticals and challenges to talk about setting these up if you ask not webdevs but actual phone people. 1: https://jretest.com/product/jre-0912/ https://jretest.com/product/jre-0912/

mlyle 3y ago
Who's the person who crawls into the tiny box and makes sure the dialer UI is doing the right thing, given that is what our primary concern is? We've been talking about the cost of making a screened room. "Turnkey" ones cost about $20-50k, but you're going to pay contractors a fair bit beyond that. Not to mention whatever equipment you're putting inside. https://www.ramayes.com/Refurbished_Radio_Frequency_Shielded_Rooms.htm https://www.ramayes.com/Refurbished_Radio_Frequency_Shielded...
- Kwpolska 3y ago
  $50k is chump change for Google. Regardless, there are costs and regulations associated with making a phone, and if you aren’t willing to adhere to that, you’d better keep making search engines and other websites.
  - mlyle 3y ago
    > $50k is chump change for Google. c.f. my comment: > > > It shouldn't be too expensive, but People just don't read and understand that you can agree with the broader scope of comment but not the details.
- numpad0 3y ago
  Our primary concern is dialer crashing! I don't understand why you're trying to shift the blame away from Google. That's just stupid.
  - mlyle 3y ago
    > Our primary concern is dialer crashing! Yes, so being able to use the phone UI is important for qualitative testing. > I don't understand why you're trying to shift the blame away from Google. That's just stupid. I feel like you didn't read my comment. I stated that a screened room isn't prohibitively expensive, but can't be delivered for the suggested $10k. In another comment, I said "Society spends a few billion dollars a year on E911 and related infrastructure. To have faith in it eroded because of a little bit of slipshod validation by phone vendors is a false economy." Why isn't it possible to have nuanced discussions-- to condemn Google's failure here, but also to suggest that the capital expense to give people realistic test environments is probably higher than others are suggesting? Frankly, you're being abrasive.
    - numpad0 3y ago
      You must have the UI? Call your factory, ask them make an extra ICE and hook it up to the simulator through an attenuator and shielded cables. Easy. Cost couple cars worth, so what. Add noises, simulate phasing, handover, do anything you want to. premises is, you're a top mass market smart phone manufacturer, and Google, both of that at the same time. No, you're trying to find a way to make it sound impossible. But what you're saying is more along, probably, "finding a parking lot to test brakes is impossible even for a car company". Something real stupid as that.