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To think the top-voted comment is one approving of child porn, and your comment is getting downvoted... we've truly come to a bad part of the slippery slope. T

by hudon 3y ago

To think the top-voted comment is one approving of child porn, and your comment is getting downvoted... we've truly come to a bad part of the slippery slope. To answer the grand-parent: the victims of this behavior are yourself and the society you live in. The answer to "what happens to my virtue and my relationships if I indulge in AI-generated child porn?" is not "nothing", and the society which tries to experiment with this will reap the whirlwind.

SenAnder 3y ago
> the top-voted comment is one approving of child porn Fake child porn. Or do you think the real victim of child porn is morality, and the abused children are such an insignificant detail it's not even worth distinguishing between fake and real child porn?
- hudon 3y ago
  Let me make it clearer then: Children are the ultimate victims of sexualizing children.
  - SenAnder 3y ago
    Wow, an even broader category! First it was putting raping children and filming it, and generating fake pixels, in the same bucket, and now you put both of those, and countless other things, under the vague description of "sexualizing children". Why is this bad? Well, let's look at how one might fight child abuse: find lots of CSAM online, put it through facial recognition and other digital forensics, try to find the children involved, or see if the IPs sharing it are plausibly involved with children, or use sting operations where police pretend to be children online. Then use regular policework to follow up. In the end you may end up saving a child from a very bad situation. Now how do you fight "sexualizing children"? I don't know, awareness campaigns? Go after porn artists drawing young characters? Make a classification office, such as in New Zealand, to decide which media gets censored... maybe eventually you'll catch someone actually abusing children, but your target is so vague, your efforts so unfocused, most of your manpower is wasted. To give an analogy: In a campaign to ban dumping toxic waste into rivers, you are the person saying "actually this is the fault of capitalism, we should fight that instead".
    - hudon 3y ago
      of course the category of victims of watching the sexual abuse children (ai generated or otherwise) is broad. It's a terrible thing. You definitely do not fight sexualizing children by normalizing the production of child sexual abuse material. Come on now.
      - skullone 3y ago
        I question the motives of people who wax philosophic about this subject matter. Of all the gray areas of the law - one thing any normal person would find revolting is someone's attraction to minors. Now I've opened the door to people who will say "it's ok in X country because minors are 8 and younger" or some shit. Only on HN would this be controversial, what is it about this? Not the first time this debate has happened here with a similar refrain "but no actual children were harmed!". Ok, if you ignore how this source material is generated, predatory behaviors these people exhibit otherwise. It's a severe for of antisocial deviant depraved behavior - normalized here on HN.
- skullone 3y ago
  How does one train an AI model for this? What the heck is your defense for someone engaging in this?
  - SenAnder 3y ago
    How do you train an AI model for making a cabbage with the face of a man? This is tangential however - South Korea bans all fictional child porn, not only that generated by AI. https://old.reddit.com/r/midjourney/comments/16w12j8/just_a_man_and_his_cabbage/ https://old.reddit.com/r/midjourney/comments/16w12j8/just_a_...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
networkchad 3y ago
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HeyImAlex 3y ago
There’s a difference between “approving of” something and thinking it shouldn’t be a crime. What’s your feeling on the first amendment? Do you approve of hate speech?
- hudon 3y ago
  Laws have to be taken in the context of the culture in which they exist. If the culture is one in which it is normal to produce and watch the sexual abuse of children (ai generated or otherwise), then that culture should definitely not have a law that enshrines the tolerance of this behavior. And yes, if you allow for the spreading of child porn, you approve of it with your silence. If, on the contrary, you believed it were wrong, it would be your duty to do something about it, such as making it a crime.
skullone 3y ago
I don't even care - the HN crowd is uhhhh, how do I say... quite on the spectrum. Jumping to defend RMS, saying it's totally ok just because he's autistic. Didn't really expect much to be honest given past discussions here, just a lot of enablers and fetish pushers. There was even a ton of support for some caught in Thailand with underage people, and jailed in Australia I believe, people jumping to defend him here because he wasn't in Australia to break Australian law (really, they were just gas lighting their own deviances)

by hudon 3y ago

SenAnder 3y ago

> the top-voted comment is one approving of child porn Fake child porn. Or do you think the real victim of child porn is morality, and the abused children are such an insignificant detail it's not even worth distinguishing between fake and real child porn?

hudon 3y ago
Let me make it clearer then: Children are the ultimate victims of sexualizing children.
- SenAnder 3y ago
  Wow, an even broader category! First it was putting raping children and filming it, and generating fake pixels, in the same bucket, and now you put both of those, and countless other things, under the vague description of "sexualizing children". Why is this bad? Well, let's look at how one might fight child abuse: find lots of CSAM online, put it through facial recognition and other digital forensics, try to find the children involved, or see if the IPs sharing it are plausibly involved with children, or use sting operations where police pretend to be children online. Then use regular policework to follow up. In the end you may end up saving a child from a very bad situation. Now how do you fight "sexualizing children"? I don't know, awareness campaigns? Go after porn artists drawing young characters? Make a classification office, such as in New Zealand, to decide which media gets censored... maybe eventually you'll catch someone actually abusing children, but your target is so vague, your efforts so unfocused, most of your manpower is wasted. To give an analogy: In a campaign to ban dumping toxic waste into rivers, you are the person saying "actually this is the fault of capitalism, we should fight that instead".
  - hudon 3y ago
    of course the category of victims of watching the sexual abuse children (ai generated or otherwise) is broad. It's a terrible thing. You definitely do not fight sexualizing children by normalizing the production of child sexual abuse material. Come on now.
    - skullone 3y ago
      I question the motives of people who wax philosophic about this subject matter. Of all the gray areas of the law - one thing any normal person would find revolting is someone's attraction to minors. Now I've opened the door to people who will say "it's ok in X country because minors are 8 and younger" or some shit. Only on HN would this be controversial, what is it about this? Not the first time this debate has happened here with a similar refrain "but no actual children were harmed!". Ok, if you ignore how this source material is generated, predatory behaviors these people exhibit otherwise. It's a severe for of antisocial deviant depraved behavior - normalized here on HN.
skullone 3y ago
How does one train an AI model for this? What the heck is your defense for someone engaging in this?
- SenAnder 3y ago
  How do you train an AI model for making a cabbage with the face of a man? This is tangential however - South Korea bans all fictional child porn, not only that generated by AI. https://old.reddit.com/r/midjourney/comments/16w12j8/just_a_man_and_his_cabbage/ https://old.reddit.com/r/midjourney/comments/16w12j8/just_a_...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

networkchad 3y ago

[dead]

HeyImAlex 3y ago

There’s a difference between “approving of” something and thinking it shouldn’t be a crime. What’s your feeling on the first amendment? Do you approve of hate speech?

hudon 3y ago
Laws have to be taken in the context of the culture in which they exist. If the culture is one in which it is normal to produce and watch the sexual abuse of children (ai generated or otherwise), then that culture should definitely not have a law that enshrines the tolerance of this behavior. And yes, if you allow for the spreading of child porn, you approve of it with your silence. If, on the contrary, you believed it were wrong, it would be your duty to do something about it, such as making it a crime.

skullone 3y ago

I don't even care - the HN crowd is uhhhh, how do I say... quite on the spectrum. Jumping to defend RMS, saying it's totally ok just because he's autistic. Didn't really expect much to be honest given past discussions here, just a lot of enablers and fetish pushers. There was even a ton of support for some caught in Thailand with underage people, and jailed in Australia I believe, people jumping to defend him here because he wasn't in Australia to break Australian law (really, they were just gas lighting their own deviances)