5 ms·

At this point trusting the institutions is being naive and dumb

by norwalkbear 3y ago

the_only_law 3y ago
Speaking of naive and dumb…
bglazer 3y ago
What do you trust instead? Like, how do form a conception of reality based on events you don’t directly observe?
- freedomben 3y ago
  This question is the best illustration of why it makes me so angry that the institutions have been so untrustworthy. Without the institutions, you end up in the land of can't trust anyone/anything and choose-your-own-reality. It's not going to end well if we can't make serious reform and right the ship. The worst part is there doesn't seem to be any appetite for doing that, just denial and self-interest.
  - dcow 3y ago
    It's the zeitgeist: attack all manner of institutions with absolutely no plan or appetite to rebuild them.
    - mantas 3y ago
      Do institutions even try to be trustworthy these days? Everybody is just pushing a narrative.
    - latency-guy2 3y ago
      Why should institutions be trusted in the first place? Isn't it up to the institution to maintain their reputation/quality, perpetually? Since when did the public have to bear that weight? For what reason?
    - photonthug 3y ago
      Isn't the appetite to tear down the castles and towers arguably due to years of frustration following failures to change/reform them? Average people can definitely be annoyed by institutions like the court or congress or the who, but they have very little agency to effect any change there, much less "rebuild" anything. Arguably it takes a certain idealistic naivety to hang hopes on things like "change it from the inside!" and "something something grassroots". If you're not perfectly satisfied with the status quo then tearing down or sowing chaos to change something somehow does start to look rational.
    - freedomben 3y ago
      do you think the distrust of institutions is warranted?
  - stuckinhell 3y ago
    I think people are overthinking this. In Asia, you kinda just assume as a tourist someone is going to take advantage of you or try. You can't be naive about reality, once you accept that you can then figure out what you want to do about it. Eventually new groups will forms as the old ones dies probably violently as they fight to protect themselves. I think 100% the institutional corruption has destroyed public trust in them, and the public is right to believe they are untrustworthy. The unity debacle recently shows how easy it is to loose trust, and how difficult it is to get it back.
- mantas 3y ago
  Nobody? Nowadays the only way to get some legit information is to cross-check multiple conflicting sources. And then apply some gut feeling based on historical track record. Which also needs to be formed by cross-checking multiple sources.
  - bglazer 3y ago
    If you “trust nobody” and you aren’t immediately and cripplingly paralyzed by the task of rigorously verifying every piece of information you rely on to live, then you’re not being serious. How do you trust that your car, electrical wiring, water pipes, food, medicine, and consumer products are safe? Foreign reporting is true? Politicians aren't secretly selling votes? Your have to trust other people. If you “trust nobody” you’re just obscuring who you actually trust, and that makes it harder to think about whether you should actually trust them or not.
    - mantas 3y ago
      How do I trust my car? I see plenty of cars of the same model being driven around. I assume my car will act the same. Electrical wiring and water pipes? When my house was being built, I visited the site almost daily, took tons of pictures and read a ton how the things should be done properly. Medicine? Read multiple sources upfront and possibly visit multiple specialists. I and my relatives were burned multiple times by not doing this and trusting first specialist they bumped into. Regarding foreign reports and politicians, as I said, triage multiple reports. And I’m pretty sure vast majority of politicians have biases, either paid-for or ideological.
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      I don't need the level of psychological assurance you do in life. I use judgement. I know my car works because my mechanic seems like he has his shit together and knows what he is doing. I don't get that impression from virtually anyone in the social sciences.
      - cycomanic 3y ago
        And you make that assessment based on what? I would wager taht there is significantly more fraud amongst car mechanics than social science researchers. Let's not even talk about the massive fraud that car companies have been engaged in (VWs Diesel scandal, Teslas autopilot...), but somehow you find them more trustworthy than social science professors?
- krapp 3y ago
  Trust no one and nothing. Assume every narrative you're being given of the outside world has been corrupted and distorted to manipulate you towards unknown ends, and that every authority a liar and a fraud. Stop engaging with the media, pop culture and modern communications technology as much as possible. Live your life and accept that there's nothing you can do about any of it. You're being lied to by everyone and everything and you'll never be capable of knowing the truth beyond what your senses immediately tell you (and even they can be fooled) - and it doesn't really matter. We live in a "post truth" era so just pick the lie that suits you the most.

At this point trusting the institutions is being naive and dumb

the_only_law 3y ago

Speaking of naive and dumb…

bglazer 3y ago

What do you trust instead? Like, how do form a conception of reality based on events you don’t directly observe?

freedomben 3y ago
This question is the best illustration of why it makes me so angry that the institutions have been so untrustworthy. Without the institutions, you end up in the land of can't trust anyone/anything and choose-your-own-reality. It's not going to end well if we can't make serious reform and right the ship. The worst part is there doesn't seem to be any appetite for doing that, just denial and self-interest.
- dcow 3y ago
  It's the zeitgeist: attack all manner of institutions with absolutely no plan or appetite to rebuild them.
  - mantas 3y ago
    Do institutions even try to be trustworthy these days? Everybody is just pushing a narrative.
  - latency-guy2 3y ago
    Why should institutions be trusted in the first place? Isn't it up to the institution to maintain their reputation/quality, perpetually? Since when did the public have to bear that weight? For what reason?
  - photonthug 3y ago
    Isn't the appetite to tear down the castles and towers arguably due to years of frustration following failures to change/reform them? Average people can definitely be annoyed by institutions like the court or congress or the who, but they have very little agency to effect any change there, much less "rebuild" anything. Arguably it takes a certain idealistic naivety to hang hopes on things like "change it from the inside!" and "something something grassroots". If you're not perfectly satisfied with the status quo then tearing down or sowing chaos to change something somehow does start to look rational.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    do you think the distrust of institutions is warranted?
- stuckinhell 3y ago
  I think people are overthinking this. In Asia, you kinda just assume as a tourist someone is going to take advantage of you or try. You can't be naive about reality, once you accept that you can then figure out what you want to do about it. Eventually new groups will forms as the old ones dies probably violently as they fight to protect themselves. I think 100% the institutional corruption has destroyed public trust in them, and the public is right to believe they are untrustworthy. The unity debacle recently shows how easy it is to loose trust, and how difficult it is to get it back.
mantas 3y ago
Nobody? Nowadays the only way to get some legit information is to cross-check multiple conflicting sources. And then apply some gut feeling based on historical track record. Which also needs to be formed by cross-checking multiple sources.
- bglazer 3y ago
  If you “trust nobody” and you aren’t immediately and cripplingly paralyzed by the task of rigorously verifying every piece of information you rely on to live, then you’re not being serious. How do you trust that your car, electrical wiring, water pipes, food, medicine, and consumer products are safe? Foreign reporting is true? Politicians aren't secretly selling votes? Your have to trust other people. If you “trust nobody” you’re just obscuring who you actually trust, and that makes it harder to think about whether you should actually trust them or not.
  - mantas 3y ago
    How do I trust my car? I see plenty of cars of the same model being driven around. I assume my car will act the same. Electrical wiring and water pipes? When my house was being built, I visited the site almost daily, took tons of pictures and read a ton how the things should be done properly. Medicine? Read multiple sources upfront and possibly visit multiple specialists. I and my relatives were burned multiple times by not doing this and trusting first specialist they bumped into. Regarding foreign reports and politicians, as I said, triage multiple reports. And I’m pretty sure vast majority of politicians have biases, either paid-for or ideological.
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    I don't need the level of psychological assurance you do in life. I use judgement. I know my car works because my mechanic seems like he has his shit together and knows what he is doing. I don't get that impression from virtually anyone in the social sciences.
    - cycomanic 3y ago
      And you make that assessment based on what? I would wager taht there is significantly more fraud amongst car mechanics than social science researchers. Let's not even talk about the massive fraud that car companies have been engaged in (VWs Diesel scandal, Teslas autopilot...), but somehow you find them more trustworthy than social science professors?
krapp 3y ago
Trust no one and nothing. Assume every narrative you're being given of the outside world has been corrupted and distorted to manipulate you towards unknown ends, and that every authority a liar and a fraud. Stop engaging with the media, pop culture and modern communications technology as much as possible. Live your life and accept that there's nothing you can do about any of it. You're being lied to by everyone and everything and you'll never be capable of knowing the truth beyond what your senses immediately tell you (and even they can be fooled) - and it doesn't really matter. We live in a "post truth" era so just pick the lie that suits you the most.