4 ms·

and humans mostly do the opposite, air pollution is preventing rain, sometimes it can fall the week-end when pollution is lower For me the "value" of a tree is

and humans mostly do the opposite, air pollution is preventing rain, sometimes it can fall the week-end when pollution is lower For me the "value" of a tree is extremely high, as well as plants, insects, worms.., humans values are the bottom of this scale, just after mosquitoes

thenobsta 3y ago
Are there correlation studies on this? I’m genuinely interested in reading about this.
finneganscat 3y ago
[dead]
mikewarot 3y ago
Tangent - Earthworms are an invasive species in North America[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_earthworms_of_North_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_earthworms_of_North_A...
- kibwen 3y ago
  Sort of. Earthworms are a natural species in North America, but in the northern parts of the continent they were wiped out by glaciers ten to twenty thousand years ago. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/earthworm-native-united-states-more-questions-from-readers-180958094/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/earth...
  - goatlover 3y ago
    The entire idea of invasive species is kind of fraught, because organisms migrate over time. Barren volcanic islands will become seeded with life. Past extinction events change the ecological dynamic. Technically, ocean life invaded the land hundreds of millions of years ago. Land bridges open up, continents collide or separate, etc. Humans weren't the only organism to migrate out of one continent onto others.
    - croo 3y ago
      And the entire idea of species is kind of fraught because once we were all microorganisms? No. Invasive species are relatively new to the land, they disturbe the existing equilibrium often without any natural predators to hunt them and they wreak havoc. Like wild boars in USA. Like rabbits in Australia. Like humans on earth. Barren islands evolved for tens of millions of years in isolation were all over the world until humans built ships.
- pvaldes 3y ago
  Earthworms is an entire subclass of animals. There are earthworms native of USA. Other aren't.
CorrectHorseBat 3y ago
Are you sure it's not the other way around? I remember reading Mondays have the sunniest weather because there's less pollution over the weekend. And also from the article: >In the sky, aerosol particles attract water vapor or ice. When the tiny wet globs get large enough, they become seeds for clouds. Half of Earth’s cloud cover forms around stuff like sand, salt, soot, smoke, and dust. The other half nucleates around vapors released by living things or machines, like the sulfur dioxide that arises from burning fossil fuels.
SideQuark 3y ago
> air pollution is preventing rain Air pollution also causes more rain, changes rain from shallow to severe, and a large host of other effects. It's not simply "air pollution is preventing rain". A simple example - for ~100 years mankind has used silver iodide to seed clouds to cause rain. Silver iodide would easily be called air pollution. [1] Here's google scholar - note the large variety of rain and pollution interaction - and most certainly not as simple or negative as you post [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding [2] https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,15&q=precipitation+air+pollution https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,15&q=preci...
- 11235813213455 3y ago
  obviously talking of the common car traffic and related air pollution
  - SideQuark 3y ago
    And wrong. Read the research.
    - 11235813213455 3y ago
      all studies agree on "urban areas receive significantly more precipitation at weekends than on weekdays" which was my initial point the "Inverse relations between amounts of air pollution and orographic precipitation" article seems like an outlier and buzzy paper nothing much more
      - SideQuark 3y ago
        All studies, huh? [1] "Daily precipitation records for 219 surface observing stations in the United States for the 42-year period 1951–1992 are investigated for weekly cycles in precipitation. Results indicate that neither the occurrence nor amount of precipitation significantly depends upon the day of the week" [2] is a highly cited paper, has a good overview of the field, lots of papers, and certainly points out that the claims you're making are not considered statistically valid. They present ~2 dozen papers, show that some claim effect, some do not, rank them by statistical quality, and most interestingly, have a good summary table (Table 2). Use Sci Hub to read the paper. Table 2 makes it completely clear your claims are simply not warranted by the science. The rest of the paper reaches the same conclusion.... "The idea that it rains more on weekends because of weekday pollution is a myth." [3] If you care to read the literature, you'd find these are not outlier papers. The effects are far more subtle, and much weaker statistically and evidentially, than you are claiming. [1] https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2007GL031889 https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/200... [2] "Assessing large-scale weekly cycles in meteorological variables: a review" [3] https://www.businessinsider.com/does-it-rain-more-on-the-weekend-2018-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/does-it-rain-more-on-the-wee...
czbond 3y ago
> humans values are the bottom of this scale, just after mosquitoes Aren't us humans almost exclusively a net negative, except for a small few? Meaning in most cases to Earth, it's best we didn't exist? We create pollution, waste, consume large amounts of resources that are only a net benefit in some cases to humans. Now in a cosmic sense, maybe the Universe gains by having life - but who knows
- 11235813213455 3y ago
  Totally, the other animals that also have negative footprint are pets, farming animals due to their food and care All other animals are autonomous and participating in the ecosystem
- pauldenton 3y ago
  Has any other life form on Earth protected another life form on Earth from extinction? It seems like other life is spending 0 effort maintaining the environment, preventing the extinction of other species that are considered competitors for limited food and limited space.
  - czbond 3y ago
    While I don't disagree with these points, wouldn't this mean some small number like 0.0000001% of all of us humans over humanities entire existence are not a net negative?
  - lukas099 3y ago
    The species that evolved in conjunction with those ecosystems don't have to put effort into maintaining those ecosystems. They do it automatically.
    - pauldenton 3y ago
      In a ruthless way. Cuckoo birds have a mating strategy that would be immoral by human standards. As would that of the praying Mantis All this is to say humans treat animals better than animals treat one another. We condemn cannibalism, rape and Necrophilia as natural species engage in it. If we observe that behavior in a zoo we actively prevent it. We impose that mortality upon them
m3047 3y ago
I don't have the source, it was a few years ago, but there is a positive correlation between particulates and precipitation; however it can take several days for the effect to reach maximum "signal" and due to the movement of air masses the actual precipitation can happen some distance (possibly thousands of miles) from the source of particulates: if it rains (or doesn't rain) on the weekend for you, that might have some correlation to location of the source of particulates in your area. A related effect would seem to be low sulfur fuel reducing ocean cloud cover (compared to previous fuel). I just saw an interactive map of a study using aircraft cruising altitude to impact cloud formation a few days ago.

thenobsta 3y ago

Are there correlation studies on this? I’m genuinely interested in reading about this.

finneganscat 3y ago

[dead]

mikewarot 3y ago

Tangent - Earthworms are an invasive species in North America[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_earthworms_of_North_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_earthworms_of_North_A...

kibwen 3y ago
Sort of. Earthworms are a natural species in North America, but in the northern parts of the continent they were wiped out by glaciers ten to twenty thousand years ago. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/earthworm-native-united-states-more-questions-from-readers-180958094/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/earth...
- goatlover 3y ago
  The entire idea of invasive species is kind of fraught, because organisms migrate over time. Barren volcanic islands will become seeded with life. Past extinction events change the ecological dynamic. Technically, ocean life invaded the land hundreds of millions of years ago. Land bridges open up, continents collide or separate, etc. Humans weren't the only organism to migrate out of one continent onto others.
  - croo 3y ago
    And the entire idea of species is kind of fraught because once we were all microorganisms? No. Invasive species are relatively new to the land, they disturbe the existing equilibrium often without any natural predators to hunt them and they wreak havoc. Like wild boars in USA. Like rabbits in Australia. Like humans on earth. Barren islands evolved for tens of millions of years in isolation were all over the world until humans built ships.
pvaldes 3y ago
Earthworms is an entire subclass of animals. There are earthworms native of USA. Other aren't.

CorrectHorseBat 3y ago

Are you sure it's not the other way around? I remember reading Mondays have the sunniest weather because there's less pollution over the weekend. And also from the article: >In the sky, aerosol particles attract water vapor or ice. When the tiny wet globs get large enough, they become seeds for clouds. Half of Earth’s cloud cover forms around stuff like sand, salt, soot, smoke, and dust. The other half nucleates around vapors released by living things or machines, like the sulfur dioxide that arises from burning fossil fuels.

SideQuark 3y ago

> air pollution is preventing rain Air pollution also causes more rain, changes rain from shallow to severe, and a large host of other effects. It's not simply "air pollution is preventing rain". A simple example - for ~100 years mankind has used silver iodide to seed clouds to cause rain. Silver iodide would easily be called air pollution. [1] Here's google scholar - note the large variety of rain and pollution interaction - and most certainly not as simple or negative as you post [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding [2] https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,15&q=precipitation+air+pollution https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,15&q=preci...

11235813213455 3y ago
obviously talking of the common car traffic and related air pollution
- SideQuark 3y ago
  And wrong. Read the research.
  - 11235813213455 3y ago
    all studies agree on "urban areas receive significantly more precipitation at weekends than on weekdays" which was my initial point the "Inverse relations between amounts of air pollution and orographic precipitation" article seems like an outlier and buzzy paper nothing much more
    - SideQuark 3y ago
      All studies, huh? [1] "Daily precipitation records for 219 surface observing stations in the United States for the 42-year period 1951–1992 are investigated for weekly cycles in precipitation. Results indicate that neither the occurrence nor amount of precipitation significantly depends upon the day of the week" [2] is a highly cited paper, has a good overview of the field, lots of papers, and certainly points out that the claims you're making are not considered statistically valid. They present ~2 dozen papers, show that some claim effect, some do not, rank them by statistical quality, and most interestingly, have a good summary table (Table 2). Use Sci Hub to read the paper. Table 2 makes it completely clear your claims are simply not warranted by the science. The rest of the paper reaches the same conclusion.... "The idea that it rains more on weekends because of weekday pollution is a myth." [3] If you care to read the literature, you'd find these are not outlier papers. The effects are far more subtle, and much weaker statistically and evidentially, than you are claiming. [1] https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2007GL031889 https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/200... [2] "Assessing large-scale weekly cycles in meteorological variables: a review" [3] https://www.businessinsider.com/does-it-rain-more-on-the-weekend-2018-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/does-it-rain-more-on-the-wee...

czbond 3y ago

> humans values are the bottom of this scale, just after mosquitoes Aren't us humans almost exclusively a net negative, except for a small few? Meaning in most cases to Earth, it's best we didn't exist? We create pollution, waste, consume large amounts of resources that are only a net benefit in some cases to humans. Now in a cosmic sense, maybe the Universe gains by having life - but who knows

11235813213455 3y ago
Totally, the other animals that also have negative footprint are pets, farming animals due to their food and care All other animals are autonomous and participating in the ecosystem
pauldenton 3y ago
Has any other life form on Earth protected another life form on Earth from extinction? It seems like other life is spending 0 effort maintaining the environment, preventing the extinction of other species that are considered competitors for limited food and limited space.
- czbond 3y ago
  While I don't disagree with these points, wouldn't this mean some small number like 0.0000001% of all of us humans over humanities entire existence are not a net negative?
- lukas099 3y ago
  The species that evolved in conjunction with those ecosystems don't have to put effort into maintaining those ecosystems. They do it automatically.
  - pauldenton 3y ago
    In a ruthless way. Cuckoo birds have a mating strategy that would be immoral by human standards. As would that of the praying Mantis All this is to say humans treat animals better than animals treat one another. We condemn cannibalism, rape and Necrophilia as natural species engage in it. If we observe that behavior in a zoo we actively prevent it. We impose that mortality upon them

m3047 3y ago

I don't have the source, it was a few years ago, but there is a positive correlation between particulates and precipitation; however it can take several days for the effect to reach maximum "signal" and due to the movement of air masses the actual precipitation can happen some distance (possibly thousands of miles) from the source of particulates: if it rains (or doesn't rain) on the weekend for you, that might have some correlation to location of the source of particulates in your area. A related effect would seem to be low sulfur fuel reducing ocean cloud cover (compared to previous fuel). I just saw an interactive map of a study using aircraft cruising altitude to impact cloud formation a few days ago.