3 ms·

Are you trolling? Both MyIsam and Aria are not ACID compliant. May as well use /dev/null.

_cenw 3y ago
This. Please do not do this on a production DB for reasons like "I like the file layout more" without knowing what you're losing. Write performance on MyISAM is often worse than using SQLite, for instance.
phil21 3y ago
> Are you trolling? Both MyIsam and Aria are not ACID compliant. May as well use /dev/null. This is silly. I would say most databases in production in the world have zero need for ACID compliance. I know plenty of companies making millions of dollars of revenue per month off their MyISAM table database products. Hard to do that with /dev/null I assume. It works fine depending on what you are doing. Granted, there are typically better options these days, but this goes back 15+ years of silliness. Many (most?) web apps are write once, read millions. For high volume/low value data that doesn't need perfect accuracy or consistency you can make MySQL/MariaDB absolutely fly. That said, I hear PSQL can get close these days turning some knobs as well. But, the ACID argument is tired and usually made in places where it simply is irrelevant. Most apps simply don't matter if they drop some data here and there, but developers act like they are building critical banking systems for their ad viewing platform. This is probably a top 10 favorite bike shedding topic I've seen in dev meetings over my career. In 90% or better cases you could have chosen literally any RDBMS and been fine, the arguments about it taking more time than the choice made will ever save.
jen20 3y ago
Is /dev/null web scale though? And does it support sharding?
- SushiHippie 3y ago
  For thos who don't know this masterpiece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs
- mst 3y ago
  I think sharding support was only added after the rebrand to MongoDB. (caveat that while I don't -enjoy- modern Mongo, it's no longer meaningfully the thing that said joke is about)
mst 3y ago
Aria can be "crashproof" by using what I think is effectively a mini-WAL. "One statement per transaction" is a limitation you need to be able to accept, but -if- that's the case the data safety is likely relatively fine. MyISAM, much like pre-wiredtiger MongoDB, sits firmly in the "probably don't put anything into this you can't recreate" category for me. Also remember that filesystems are much better at leaving something consistent behind (maybe consistenly broken, but that's still often better for getting things fixed) even after a nasty crash than they used to be - so while the last time I used MyISAM many many years ago we did absolutely get data loss issues, I wouldn't be surprised if we'd've lucked out if we'd had a 21st century filesystem instead of UFS.

This. Please do not do this on a production DB for reasons like "I like the file layout more" without knowing what you're losing. Write performance on MyISAM is often worse than using SQLite, for instance.

phil21 3y ago

> Are you trolling? Both MyIsam and Aria are not ACID compliant. May as well use /dev/null. This is silly. I would say most databases in production in the world have zero need for ACID compliance. I know plenty of companies making millions of dollars of revenue per month off their MyISAM table database products. Hard to do that with /dev/null I assume. It works fine depending on what you are doing. Granted, there are typically better options these days, but this goes back 15+ years of silliness. Many (most?) web apps are write once, read millions. For high volume/low value data that doesn't need perfect accuracy or consistency you can make MySQL/MariaDB absolutely fly. That said, I hear PSQL can get close these days turning some knobs as well. But, the ACID argument is tired and usually made in places where it simply is irrelevant. Most apps simply don't matter if they drop some data here and there, but developers act like they are building critical banking systems for their ad viewing platform. This is probably a top 10 favorite bike shedding topic I've seen in dev meetings over my career. In 90% or better cases you could have chosen literally any RDBMS and been fine, the arguments about it taking more time than the choice made will ever save.

jen20 3y ago

Is /dev/null web scale though? And does it support sharding?

SushiHippie 3y ago
For thos who don't know this masterpiece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs
mst 3y ago
I think sharding support was only added after the rebrand to MongoDB. (caveat that while I don't -enjoy- modern Mongo, it's no longer meaningfully the thing that said joke is about)

mst 3y ago

Aria can be "crashproof" by using what I think is effectively a mini-WAL. "One statement per transaction" is a limitation you need to be able to accept, but -if- that's the case the data safety is likely relatively fine. MyISAM, much like pre-wiredtiger MongoDB, sits firmly in the "probably don't put anything into this you can't recreate" category for me. Also remember that filesystems are much better at leaving something consistent behind (maybe consistenly broken, but that's still often better for getting things fixed) even after a nasty crash than they used to be - so while the last time I used MyISAM many many years ago we did absolutely get data loss issues, I wouldn't be surprised if we'd've lucked out if we'd had a 21st century filesystem instead of UFS.