4 ms·

> Would be nice if you provide some evidence for those claims. Is this a joke? Windows is notorious for ramming updates down a users throat, whether they want

by 38 3y ago

> Would be nice if you provide some evidence for those claims. Is this a joke? Windows is notorious for ramming updates down a users throat, whether they want them or not.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
But where's the "gaslighting and blaming the user" that your grand-parent was talking about? As for the aut-updates, for my parent's PC, I'm glad it auto-updates, otherwise they would never update and leave them vulnerable. What's wrong with that? Do you want the latest security patches or not? It's not like I can convince my parents to run sudo pacman -Syu every week.
- whynaut 3y ago
  security patches are one thing. Having drivers for my hardware broken/corrupted because Windows thinks it knows better, is another. Having to download a third party program to clean up said driver mess before/after I can update any of my components, is another.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >Having drivers for my hardware broken/corrupted because Windows thinks it knows better, is another. Never had that happen though. Ever. WHQL drivers in Windows repos are usually bulletproof which is why they're usually a bit older. It's only when you go and manually install other non-WHQL drivers, that you might run into issues from the lack of testing. Not saying it couldn't have ever happened to you or anyone else an account of the millions of permutations of possible hardware combinations, but in my experience I never had driver issues from auto-updates since Windows 7 on a variety of desktops and laptops.
- eimrine 3y ago
  Auto-enabling telemetry after each update seems already fitting to a gaslight definition. Not letting me to delay updates is just another level of disrespect. What if I am writing DVD at that time or doing something else without ability to stop and continue? If your parents don't use bitcoins on that Arch setup while sitting on Internets with no router - they don't need to do system update that often.
  - dist-epoch 3y ago
    > Auto-enabling telemetry after each update It doesn't do such a thing. But let's not allow truth to get in the way of a good narrative.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      HN threads on Windows are just a massive dogpile of FUD.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >Not letting me to delay updates is just another level of disrespect. False. You CAN delay updates. Though, I never do because for security and performance I like to be up to date on the stable branch. Same with 99% of users out there. >What if I am writing DVD at that time or doing something else without ability to stop and continue? What are you talking about? What work interruption? When was the last time you actually used Windows 11? Minor windows updates happen in the background while you can continue doing your work like burning DVDs, and major Windows updates will prompt you that the updates will be applied the next time you re-boot or shut-down, but that will happen at your discression, again, without interrupting your work. I feel like you might be stuck in a 2013 time loop back when Windows 10 was force-rebooting your PC for updates while users were working.
    - fortran77 3y ago
      I'm happy with Windows 11. I'm running it right now on an ARM laptop. I got a call from my brother yesterday. He wanted to know how to "fix" his iPhone. He needed to install an app to buy tickets for an upcoming trip and the app said that he "must update to iOS 15.1 or higher". Somehow, even though he thought he was keeping his phone up-to-date, he missed a couple of years worth of updates. I don't think trying to help users update is user hostile.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    You can delay updates and you can schedule when to restart. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/manage-updates-in-windows-643e9ea7-3cf6-7da6-a25c-95d4f7f099fe https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/manage-updates-i...
maltalex 3y ago
Ramming updates down people’s throats is what it takes. Windows is full of questionable decisions, but being aggressive with applying (security) updates isn’t one of them. Also, don’t like updates being rammed down your throat? Apply them yourself.
- HWR_14 3y ago
  If security updates were separate from a bunch of downgrades masquerading as updates, people would apply them more often.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Any example of downgrades that you got from updates? Don't know what updates you got but for me they al came with upgrades, not downgrades.
- crimsontech 3y ago
  It’s not just security updates though is it? It automatically pushes unwanted feature updates. I had a powerful windows development system running windows 11 pro. I would RDP to this system to work, a while back it wouldn’t connect. The machine was online but I could not RDP into it. I physically went to the machine and connected a monitor to see what was going on. I was presented with a screen urging me to create a Microsoft account to log in locally with. This is what prevented me from getting work done. An advert for a Microsoft account. That was the last straw for me, I replaced windows on that machine the same day.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >It automatically pushes unwanted feature updates Unwanted for who? Maybe a lot of users actually need the newer features that get shipped.
fortran77 3y ago
https://static1.howtogeekimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/00_lead_image_software_updater.png https://static1.howtogeekimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/upl... I just had to help someone out who was clearly over his head using Ubuntu (a Ph.D. student) after he clicked "yes" to one of these popups, updated his to the next major version, and broke all his python-based installed software he needed for his project.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Yeah, Linux isn't for everyone to daily drive, unless you're ready to invest in learning and tinkering, and secondly , that's why you should use things like python virtual environments and containers.

by 38 3y ago

> Would be nice if you provide some evidence for those claims. Is this a joke? Windows is notorious for ramming updates down a users throat, whether they want them or not.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

But where's the "gaslighting and blaming the user" that your grand-parent was talking about? As for the aut-updates, for my parent's PC, I'm glad it auto-updates, otherwise they would never update and leave them vulnerable. What's wrong with that? Do you want the latest security patches or not? It's not like I can convince my parents to run sudo pacman -Syu every week.

whynaut 3y ago
security patches are one thing. Having drivers for my hardware broken/corrupted because Windows thinks it knows better, is another. Having to download a third party program to clean up said driver mess before/after I can update any of my components, is another.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >Having drivers for my hardware broken/corrupted because Windows thinks it knows better, is another. Never had that happen though. Ever. WHQL drivers in Windows repos are usually bulletproof which is why they're usually a bit older. It's only when you go and manually install other non-WHQL drivers, that you might run into issues from the lack of testing. Not saying it couldn't have ever happened to you or anyone else an account of the millions of permutations of possible hardware combinations, but in my experience I never had driver issues from auto-updates since Windows 7 on a variety of desktops and laptops.
eimrine 3y ago
Auto-enabling telemetry after each update seems already fitting to a gaslight definition. Not letting me to delay updates is just another level of disrespect. What if I am writing DVD at that time or doing something else without ability to stop and continue? If your parents don't use bitcoins on that Arch setup while sitting on Internets with no router - they don't need to do system update that often.
- dist-epoch 3y ago
  > Auto-enabling telemetry after each update It doesn't do such a thing. But let's not allow truth to get in the way of a good narrative.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    HN threads on Windows are just a massive dogpile of FUD.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >Not letting me to delay updates is just another level of disrespect. False. You CAN delay updates. Though, I never do because for security and performance I like to be up to date on the stable branch. Same with 99% of users out there. >What if I am writing DVD at that time or doing something else without ability to stop and continue? What are you talking about? What work interruption? When was the last time you actually used Windows 11? Minor windows updates happen in the background while you can continue doing your work like burning DVDs, and major Windows updates will prompt you that the updates will be applied the next time you re-boot or shut-down, but that will happen at your discression, again, without interrupting your work. I feel like you might be stuck in a 2013 time loop back when Windows 10 was force-rebooting your PC for updates while users were working.
  - fortran77 3y ago
    I'm happy with Windows 11. I'm running it right now on an ARM laptop. I got a call from my brother yesterday. He wanted to know how to "fix" his iPhone. He needed to install an app to buy tickets for an upcoming trip and the app said that he "must update to iOS 15.1 or higher". Somehow, even though he thought he was keeping his phone up-to-date, he missed a couple of years worth of updates. I don't think trying to help users update is user hostile.
- vel0city 3y ago
  You can delay updates and you can schedule when to restart. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/manage-updates-in-windows-643e9ea7-3cf6-7da6-a25c-95d4f7f099fe https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/manage-updates-i...

maltalex 3y ago

Ramming updates down people’s throats is what it takes. Windows is full of questionable decisions, but being aggressive with applying (security) updates isn’t one of them. Also, don’t like updates being rammed down your throat? Apply them yourself.

HWR_14 3y ago
If security updates were separate from a bunch of downgrades masquerading as updates, people would apply them more often.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Any example of downgrades that you got from updates? Don't know what updates you got but for me they al came with upgrades, not downgrades.
crimsontech 3y ago
It’s not just security updates though is it? It automatically pushes unwanted feature updates. I had a powerful windows development system running windows 11 pro. I would RDP to this system to work, a while back it wouldn’t connect. The machine was online but I could not RDP into it. I physically went to the machine and connected a monitor to see what was going on. I was presented with a screen urging me to create a Microsoft account to log in locally with. This is what prevented me from getting work done. An advert for a Microsoft account. That was the last straw for me, I replaced windows on that machine the same day.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >It automatically pushes unwanted feature updates Unwanted for who? Maybe a lot of users actually need the newer features that get shipped.

fortran77 3y ago

https://static1.howtogeekimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/00_lead_image_software_updater.png https://static1.howtogeekimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/upl... I just had to help someone out who was clearly over his head using Ubuntu (a Ph.D. student) after he clicked "yes" to one of these popups, updated his to the next major version, and broke all his python-based installed software he needed for his project.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Yeah, Linux isn't for everyone to daily drive, unless you're ready to invest in learning and tinkering, and secondly , that's why you should use things like python virtual environments and containers.