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Latin and Greek generelly weren’t part of womens education, even well educated women. The quip about “the absurdity to speak Latin in a Ladies presence” shows h

Latin and Greek generelly weren’t part of womens education, even well educated women. The quip about “the absurdity to speak Latin in a Ladies presence” shows how Latin was understood as a “male only” club.

defrost 3y ago
In 18th Century Britain Latin and Greek generally were not part of a man's education either, of course. Indeed: There was no national system of education before the 19th century, and only a small section of the child population received any schooling. Opportunities for a formal education were restricted mainly to town grammar schools, charity schools and 'dame' schools. https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/livinglearning/school/overview/before19thcentury/ https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transforming... The majority of British children had no formal education and those that did largely had perhaps six years of basic primary school. It was essentially only the wealthy and|or children of some clergyman that received an education ... and perhaps surprisingly it was not uncommon for well off girls to have good education in numbers and languages via private tutors at home, at least, even if they did make a habit of pretending to have none. Eton, Harrow and Westminster delivered a high quality education to the (only) boys that attended but for a great many if not most attending was less about the education and a great deal more about the social connections and on ramp into the corridors of power.
- denton-scratch 3y ago
  > children of some clergyman that received an education The clergy, of course, were one of the major groups that spoke Latin. The others were academics, and government and the law. These occupations were exclusively reserved for men.
- watwut 3y ago
  That is why the OP added "even well educated women" bit to the claim. The claim about absurdity of speaking latin to women is leading anecdote of the article. That being said, article does address some contexts in which non-elite boys got latin education.
  - defrost 3y ago
    The article itself is largely a collection of 18th century notables trashing others for their bad latin | poor education | etc. - a montage of amusing literary smack talk. The GP comment specifically cited "well educated women" as rarely being taught latin. I'd argue that anyone (in the full population) getting an education was rare, particularly a good education, this was largely confined to the titled generational wealthy and a few of the merchant new rich (at that time of the article anecdotes). I'd also argue that amoung the wealthy, women were somewhat less likely to get a good education than the men, but it was not altogether uncommon, and of those women that did get an education (the "well educated" of the comment I responded to above) latin was just as likely as other subjects. As an example, Anne Isabella Noel Byron, 11th Baroness Wentworth and Baroness Byron (née Milbanke; 17 May 1792 – 16 May 1860) (yeah, I know, sliding out of the time frame) was well known for her education and language skills (including latin) in additional for tag lining her husband of some two or three years as mad, bad, and dangerous to know. Her daughter was equally famous for her education .. but her mother very delibrately did not have her taught literature (save for 'common' language skills such as Greek and French, I can't say whether she was taught latin or not) to prevent her from going down any poetic pathways. Ada did get private tuition from leading mathematicians of the day though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Byron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Byron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace Dropping back to the 14th Century (a time the article cites anecdotes claiming to be 'better educated times') it was common for well off women to be taught the classical languages (including latin) Queen Elizabeth the first being famously fluent from a young age in multiple languages. https://www.agecrofthall.org/single-post/queen-elizabeth-i-s-education https://www.agecrofthall.org/single-post/queen-elizabeth-i-s... an article that highlights one of the great barriers women (from wealthy families) faced in eduction - access to political education. I mentioned Eton, Harrow and Westminster above as schools that were exclusive boys only clubs for political education and political contact building.

defrost 3y ago

In 18th Century Britain Latin and Greek generally were not part of a man's education either, of course. Indeed: There was no national system of education before the 19th century, and only a small section of the child population received any schooling. Opportunities for a formal education were restricted mainly to town grammar schools, charity schools and 'dame' schools. https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/livinglearning/school/overview/before19thcentury/ https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transforming... The majority of British children had no formal education and those that did largely had perhaps six years of basic primary school. It was essentially only the wealthy and|or children of some clergyman that received an education ... and perhaps surprisingly it was not uncommon for well off girls to have good education in numbers and languages via private tutors at home, at least, even if they did make a habit of pretending to have none. Eton, Harrow and Westminster delivered a high quality education to the (only) boys that attended but for a great many if not most attending was less about the education and a great deal more about the social connections and on ramp into the corridors of power.

denton-scratch 3y ago
> children of some clergyman that received an education The clergy, of course, were one of the major groups that spoke Latin. The others were academics, and government and the law. These occupations were exclusively reserved for men.
watwut 3y ago
That is why the OP added "even well educated women" bit to the claim. The claim about absurdity of speaking latin to women is leading anecdote of the article. That being said, article does address some contexts in which non-elite boys got latin education.
- defrost 3y ago
  The article itself is largely a collection of 18th century notables trashing others for their bad latin | poor education | etc. - a montage of amusing literary smack talk. The GP comment specifically cited "well educated women" as rarely being taught latin. I'd argue that anyone (in the full population) getting an education was rare, particularly a good education, this was largely confined to the titled generational wealthy and a few of the merchant new rich (at that time of the article anecdotes). I'd also argue that amoung the wealthy, women were somewhat less likely to get a good education than the men, but it was not altogether uncommon, and of those women that did get an education (the "well educated" of the comment I responded to above) latin was just as likely as other subjects. As an example, Anne Isabella Noel Byron, 11th Baroness Wentworth and Baroness Byron (née Milbanke; 17 May 1792 – 16 May 1860) (yeah, I know, sliding out of the time frame) was well known for her education and language skills (including latin) in additional for tag lining her husband of some two or three years as mad, bad, and dangerous to know. Her daughter was equally famous for her education .. but her mother very delibrately did not have her taught literature (save for 'common' language skills such as Greek and French, I can't say whether she was taught latin or not) to prevent her from going down any poetic pathways. Ada did get private tuition from leading mathematicians of the day though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Byron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Byron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace Dropping back to the 14th Century (a time the article cites anecdotes claiming to be 'better educated times') it was common for well off women to be taught the classical languages (including latin) Queen Elizabeth the first being famously fluent from a young age in multiple languages. https://www.agecrofthall.org/single-post/queen-elizabeth-i-s-education https://www.agecrofthall.org/single-post/queen-elizabeth-i-s... an article that highlights one of the great barriers women (from wealthy families) faced in eduction - access to political education. I mentioned Eton, Harrow and Westminster above as schools that were exclusive boys only clubs for political education and political contact building.