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To this day there is no answer to the iPhone. Android's answer is "copy, but if we have to choose between quality/sw-support/security and low-price, the default

To this day there is no answer to the iPhone. Android's answer is "copy, but if we have to choose between quality/sw-support/security and low-price, the default choice is the second". But make no mistake. If someone could leapfrog Apple today (just like they did leapfrog the whole industry back then), the iPhone industry would crumble overnight. But you need that idea, that upfront capital, and that marketing budget...

afavour 3y ago
> Android's answer is "copy, but if we have to choose between quality/sw-support/security and low-price, the default choice is the second". Looking at their global market share you’d struggle to say they made the wrong choice. They’re responding to market demand for a device that’s cheaper than an iPhone.
- TryWhoIsHiring 3y ago
  It's not about good and bad choices. It's that the he world's best answer to the iPhone is... the iPhone, but worse quality and cheaper. Which is a tautology at best, not a response.
  - unethical_ban 3y ago
    The Android experience is IMO much better than iOS. Apple wins on hardware and network effect.
    - not_your_vase 3y ago
      The Android user experience is a carbon copy of the iOS experience, with slightly different colors and differently sharp edges around the controls. Want to see something that's not only name different? Try Palm OS. Try WinCE. Try Symbian. Not necessarily saying they are better (there is a reason why they are dead). But it will nicely illustrate that the difference between Android and iOS is very similar to DVD+R and DVD-R - the underlying code is different, but in practice they are barely distinguishable from each other. (Except for the non-existent OS support, gigabytes of bloatware, overeager process killer, etc)
      - afavour 3y ago
        They both borrow from each other. Notifications in particular: Android’s implementation was superior from day one and iOS ended up cribbing a bunch of stuff like swiping.
        photonerd 3y ago
        Yet swipe interactions themselves were first implemented—generally speaking that is—in the iOS UI.
    - photonerd 3y ago
      So apple wins on overall experience then? Because it’s impossible to separate the experience of a physical device from its hardware OR a device from its network of services & products. All you’re really saying here is you can make android look pretty (god knows it’s not by default). And Android still has awful scrolling on anything but its most high end hardware. That’s just… sad.
      - unethical_ban 3y ago
        Allow me to introduce the concept of a hardware device compatible with multiple operating systems. And yes, I can like a user experience and software feature independent of the hardware it is operating on.
photonerd 3y ago
That’s needlessly reductive. It’s also wrong. While Android absolutely started that way it’s definitely doing its own thing now. The problem is that Apple has never really cared about being first with something. That’s a plus, and they’d love to be so, but it’s more important for them to get it right (as they see it). Android—and its major handset makers too—has a tendency to throw features at users and hope something sticks. It isn’t thoughtful in any way, or targeted, and leads to lots of firsts… that are not very well implemented. Apple tends to move with a more thoughtful “what is this & why does it exist? What is the user trying to achieve with it?” approach. This is slower, and they occasionally get it wrong, but it does tend to lead to a higher quality product. Now that isn’t to say it’s “an answer to the iPhone” because RIM wad the only competitor that actually had the software platform AND hardware integration already set up. Samsung never quite got there with Symbian & no-one else had a competitive OS with any hardware chops. Android isn’t aiming to being the iPhone, it’s aiming to be a substitute for iOS on platforms that aren’t Apple. Very different goals.
- silisili 3y ago
  > handset makers too—has a tendency to throw features at users and hope something sticks. Couldn't be more true. I mean, ZTE did it quite literally in what may have been the most ridiculous idea ever presented... https://www.newsweek.com/zte-crowdsourced-self-adhesive-smartphone-512440 https://www.newsweek.com/zte-crowdsourced-self-adhesive-smar...
kylehotchkiss 3y ago
Do you remember the palm pre? That was an idea before its time... One of the few tech things I'm nostalgic for. They wouldn't ever get a massive user base if they tried the same thing now but if they did it again with multi-day battery life and the same web app focus I could see it having some staying power.
- anotheruser13 3y ago
  What I wouldn't give for a modern Palm device! The OS was simple, but elegant. (Disclaimer: I was Senior Technical Editor of Computing Unplugged magazine, nee Palm power.)
gdulli 3y ago
By any meaningful measure they're identical content consumption devices. I know we want there to be an out group so badly that we'll make one around green text or blue text or whatever. But there's no real reason to care much anymore about phone upgrades or brand loyalty other than general volunteered consumerism.
- photonerd 3y ago
  Not true at all. Examples: If you value extensive user customization of the UI? Android is the only real choice. If you value privacy & security at all then an iPhone is the only real choice. You can do this with many more things. There are absolutely meaningful measures they differ on. That you don’t care about them beyond media consumption is a you problem, not an everyone problem

afavour 3y ago

> Android's answer is "copy, but if we have to choose between quality/sw-support/security and low-price, the default choice is the second". Looking at their global market share you’d struggle to say they made the wrong choice. They’re responding to market demand for a device that’s cheaper than an iPhone.

TryWhoIsHiring 3y ago
It's not about good and bad choices. It's that the he world's best answer to the iPhone is... the iPhone, but worse quality and cheaper. Which is a tautology at best, not a response.
- unethical_ban 3y ago
  The Android experience is IMO much better than iOS. Apple wins on hardware and network effect.
  - not_your_vase 3y ago
    The Android user experience is a carbon copy of the iOS experience, with slightly different colors and differently sharp edges around the controls. Want to see something that's not only name different? Try Palm OS. Try WinCE. Try Symbian. Not necessarily saying they are better (there is a reason why they are dead). But it will nicely illustrate that the difference between Android and iOS is very similar to DVD+R and DVD-R - the underlying code is different, but in practice they are barely distinguishable from each other. (Except for the non-existent OS support, gigabytes of bloatware, overeager process killer, etc)
    - afavour 3y ago
      They both borrow from each other. Notifications in particular: Android’s implementation was superior from day one and iOS ended up cribbing a bunch of stuff like swiping.
      - photonerd 3y ago
        Yet swipe interactions themselves were first implemented—generally speaking that is—in the iOS UI.
  - photonerd 3y ago
    So apple wins on overall experience then? Because it’s impossible to separate the experience of a physical device from its hardware OR a device from its network of services & products. All you’re really saying here is you can make android look pretty (god knows it’s not by default). And Android still has awful scrolling on anything but its most high end hardware. That’s just… sad.
    - unethical_ban 3y ago
      Allow me to introduce the concept of a hardware device compatible with multiple operating systems. And yes, I can like a user experience and software feature independent of the hardware it is operating on.

photonerd 3y ago

That’s needlessly reductive. It’s also wrong. While Android absolutely started that way it’s definitely doing its own thing now. The problem is that Apple has never really cared about being first with something. That’s a plus, and they’d love to be so, but it’s more important for them to get it right (as they see it). Android—and its major handset makers too—has a tendency to throw features at users and hope something sticks. It isn’t thoughtful in any way, or targeted, and leads to lots of firsts… that are not very well implemented. Apple tends to move with a more thoughtful “what is this & why does it exist? What is the user trying to achieve with it?” approach. This is slower, and they occasionally get it wrong, but it does tend to lead to a higher quality product. Now that isn’t to say it’s “an answer to the iPhone” because RIM wad the only competitor that actually had the software platform AND hardware integration already set up. Samsung never quite got there with Symbian & no-one else had a competitive OS with any hardware chops. Android isn’t aiming to being the iPhone, it’s aiming to be a substitute for iOS on platforms that aren’t Apple. Very different goals.

silisili 3y ago
> handset makers too—has a tendency to throw features at users and hope something sticks. Couldn't be more true. I mean, ZTE did it quite literally in what may have been the most ridiculous idea ever presented... https://www.newsweek.com/zte-crowdsourced-self-adhesive-smartphone-512440 https://www.newsweek.com/zte-crowdsourced-self-adhesive-smar...

kylehotchkiss 3y ago

Do you remember the palm pre? That was an idea before its time... One of the few tech things I'm nostalgic for. They wouldn't ever get a massive user base if they tried the same thing now but if they did it again with multi-day battery life and the same web app focus I could see it having some staying power.

anotheruser13 3y ago
What I wouldn't give for a modern Palm device! The OS was simple, but elegant. (Disclaimer: I was Senior Technical Editor of Computing Unplugged magazine, nee Palm power.)

gdulli 3y ago

By any meaningful measure they're identical content consumption devices. I know we want there to be an out group so badly that we'll make one around green text or blue text or whatever. But there's no real reason to care much anymore about phone upgrades or brand loyalty other than general volunteered consumerism.

photonerd 3y ago
Not true at all. Examples: If you value extensive user customization of the UI? Android is the only real choice. If you value privacy & security at all then an iPhone is the only real choice. You can do this with many more things. There are absolutely meaningful measures they differ on. That you don’t care about them beyond media consumption is a you problem, not an everyone problem