4 ms·

Again?! Didn't this same thing happen last year or maybe the one before?

by philipov 3y ago

Johnny555 3y ago
It'll probably happen next year and the year after that too.
- madaxe_again 3y ago
  Every year until the underwriters refuse to underwrite - as is already happening on the gulf coast. Not with a bang, but with a whimper.
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    At least in New York the geology permits a seawall, if they get their shit together and build it.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      Does a sea wall help with too much rain at once?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - discreteevent 3y ago
        I don't know about NYC but in general a sea wall could hold back a high tide. A lot of coastal cities flood when there is high rainfall coinciding with a high tide. When the tide is low the rain just drains into the river and out to sea.
        lxgr 3y ago
        In this case though, as far as I can tell it really was mostly a lot of rain at once, i.e. too much for sewers to drain to the sea to prevent flooding. I don't think a sea wall could improve this; only better storm drains could. I think this was different for Hurricane Sandy, where a storm tide was actually pushing in water from the sea/rivers, which is the scenario where a sea wall would help. And I suppose often it's a bit of both – storm drains stop working once the sea level is too high.
      - nostrademons 3y ago
        No, but better drainage would. In my sister's ex-subdivision in Houston, the streets were designed to flood, channeling any water away from property and into bayous, rivers, and ultimately the Gulf of Mexico. It worked as designed over several tropical storms. The streets were a mess but everybody's home, driveway, and property stayed dry. NYC needs a similar effort - change the streets and subways to channel water away from property and into the harbor, while providing means to harden the underground parts that can't get wet. It will be crazy expensive, but it's an engineering & construction problem, not a geographic or climate one.
        bobthepanda 3y ago
        Dumping water into the harbor only really works if it won't just come right back out onto the land. Most of the flooded areas are at sea level.
        nostrademons 3y ago
        Hence the seawall idea.
        telotortium 3y ago
        Though as you may be aware, the 3rd and 5th wards are not so well protected. Low-lying parts of highways are often flooded out, especially during hurricanes.
      - bobthepanda 3y ago
        It does if you can drain into the body of water you are blocking with the seawall.
    - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
      I'm pretty confident it will happen, there's too much real-estate money to not do it.
      - bobthepanda 3y ago
        The current project has been beset by problems with this as well. Anywhere with a seawall will have lower flooding inside but more flooding outside. When it was originally proposed at the Narrows, Staten Island, Brooklyn and Queens were not pleased.
user3939382 3y ago
Sandy the subway stations were filled with water. There were emergency flood gates built into the tunnels in some places but they weren’t maintained.
pixl97 3y ago
"Didn't we have record floods last year too?" "Didn't we have record highs last year too?" "Didn't we have record tornadoes last year too?" "Didn't we have record fires last year too?" Welcome to the age of climate instability.
- Alupis 3y ago
  *Welcome to the age of constant 24/7 sensationalized news cycles. Gotta get those clicks! One doom-n-gloom done, onto the next!
  - spicybright 3y ago
    These are the actual results of climate change though. What's being sensationalized here?
    - Alupis 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - lxgr 3y ago
        Both of these things can be true at the same time: Climate change can increase the likelihood of events like this (warmer sea water roughly translates to more energy available for tropical storms, if I understand it right), but for any individual storm, it's impossible to say whether it would have happened anyway without climate change, and it can make sense to be prepared. Climate change is real, but climate change awareness alone is not a reasonable protection strategy for a city by the sea.
        Alupis 3y ago
        It's a fair point you raise - my issue is the immediate blame of damn near everything on climate change. If everything is climate change, then nothing is climate change... it's tired and overused. There's no way the government of NYC conducted a study and learned this particular storm was caused by climate change in real time while it's still happening. Yet... here's the blame parade already. Climate change activists need to understand this pseudo-religious fever harms their position.

Again?! Didn't this same thing happen last year or maybe the one before?

Johnny555 3y ago

It'll probably happen next year and the year after that too.

madaxe_again 3y ago
Every year until the underwriters refuse to underwrite - as is already happening on the gulf coast. Not with a bang, but with a whimper.
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  At least in New York the geology permits a seawall, if they get their shit together and build it.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Does a sea wall help with too much rain at once?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - discreteevent 3y ago
      I don't know about NYC but in general a sea wall could hold back a high tide. A lot of coastal cities flood when there is high rainfall coinciding with a high tide. When the tide is low the rain just drains into the river and out to sea.
      - lxgr 3y ago
        In this case though, as far as I can tell it really was mostly a lot of rain at once, i.e. too much for sewers to drain to the sea to prevent flooding. I don't think a sea wall could improve this; only better storm drains could. I think this was different for Hurricane Sandy, where a storm tide was actually pushing in water from the sea/rivers, which is the scenario where a sea wall would help. And I suppose often it's a bit of both – storm drains stop working once the sea level is too high.
    - nostrademons 3y ago
      No, but better drainage would. In my sister's ex-subdivision in Houston, the streets were designed to flood, channeling any water away from property and into bayous, rivers, and ultimately the Gulf of Mexico. It worked as designed over several tropical storms. The streets were a mess but everybody's home, driveway, and property stayed dry. NYC needs a similar effort - change the streets and subways to channel water away from property and into the harbor, while providing means to harden the underground parts that can't get wet. It will be crazy expensive, but it's an engineering & construction problem, not a geographic or climate one.
      - bobthepanda 3y ago
        Dumping water into the harbor only really works if it won't just come right back out onto the land. Most of the flooded areas are at sea level.
        nostrademons 3y ago
        Hence the seawall idea.
      - telotortium 3y ago
        Though as you may be aware, the 3rd and 5th wards are not so well protected. Low-lying parts of highways are often flooded out, especially during hurricanes.
    - bobthepanda 3y ago
      It does if you can drain into the body of water you are blocking with the seawall.
  - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
    I'm pretty confident it will happen, there's too much real-estate money to not do it.
    - bobthepanda 3y ago
      The current project has been beset by problems with this as well. Anywhere with a seawall will have lower flooding inside but more flooding outside. When it was originally proposed at the Narrows, Staten Island, Brooklyn and Queens were not pleased.

user3939382 3y ago

Sandy the subway stations were filled with water. There were emergency flood gates built into the tunnels in some places but they weren’t maintained.

pixl97 3y ago

"Didn't we have record floods last year too?" "Didn't we have record highs last year too?" "Didn't we have record tornadoes last year too?" "Didn't we have record fires last year too?" Welcome to the age of climate instability.

Alupis 3y ago
*Welcome to the age of constant 24/7 sensationalized news cycles. Gotta get those clicks! One doom-n-gloom done, onto the next!
- spicybright 3y ago
  These are the actual results of climate change though. What's being sensationalized here?
  - Alupis 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - lxgr 3y ago
      Both of these things can be true at the same time: Climate change can increase the likelihood of events like this (warmer sea water roughly translates to more energy available for tropical storms, if I understand it right), but for any individual storm, it's impossible to say whether it would have happened anyway without climate change, and it can make sense to be prepared. Climate change is real, but climate change awareness alone is not a reasonable protection strategy for a city by the sea.
      - Alupis 3y ago
        It's a fair point you raise - my issue is the immediate blame of damn near everything on climate change. If everything is climate change, then nothing is climate change... it's tired and overused. There's no way the government of NYC conducted a study and learned this particular storm was caused by climate change in real time while it's still happening. Yet... here's the blame parade already. Climate change activists need to understand this pseudo-religious fever harms their position.