4 ms·

This isn't confusing. It's totally rational to not want limited, unspoiled land to stay that way on the one hand, and then on the other hand having lost that ba

by runako 3y ago

This isn't confusing. It's totally rational to not want limited, unspoiled land to stay that way on the one hand, and then on the other hand having lost that battle it's fair to prefer a working telescope over the wreck that's at Arecibo now. It's not an obvious conclusion from those two perspectives that one would therefore prefer to have a pristine environment spoiled with concrete.

jameshart 3y ago
There are 13 telescopes on Mauna Kea already - and some are already due to be decommissioned. It’s not unspoiled and pristine. If they don’t continue to develop the site, the telescopes there will fall into obsolescence, and ultimately disuse. Pushing back against continued development on the site is, ultimately, pushing for it to go the way of Arecibo.
- petsfed 3y ago
  Or they could perform an explicit reclamation project, to try to restore the land as best they could to the way it was prior to 1893. There are more options than just "build more telescopes" or "let the existing telescopes rot". Of course, just letting them rot would be playing to the standard colonial practice of extracting value, then leaving consequences of that extractive effort to the remaining indigenous people.
  - hokuula 3y ago
    >Or they could perform an explicit reclamation project, to try to restore the land as best they could to the way it was prior to 1893. That is exactly what they are doing. It is a condition of the conservation district use permit [1] and has already begun [2]. 1. https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/mk/files/2017/09/882-BLNR-FOFCOLDO.pdf https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/mk/files/2017/09/882-BLNR-FOFCOLDO.p..., p. 30, sec. E; p. 66 #351 2. https://www.hawaii.edu/news/2023/08/28/removal-of-caltech-telescope-underway/ https://www.hawaii.edu/news/2023/08/28/removal-of-caltech-te...

4 ms·

This isn't confusing. It's totally rational to not want limited, unspoiled land to stay that way on the one hand, and then on the other hand having lost that ba

by runako 3y ago

jameshart 3y ago
There are 13 telescopes on Mauna Kea already - and some are already due to be decommissioned. It’s not unspoiled and pristine. If they don’t continue to develop the site, the telescopes there will fall into obsolescence, and ultimately disuse. Pushing back against continued development on the site is, ultimately, pushing for it to go the way of Arecibo.
- petsfed 3y ago
  Or they could perform an explicit reclamation project, to try to restore the land as best they could to the way it was prior to 1893. There are more options than just "build more telescopes" or "let the existing telescopes rot". Of course, just letting them rot would be playing to the standard colonial practice of extracting value, then leaving consequences of that extractive effort to the remaining indigenous people.
  - hokuula 3y ago
    >Or they could perform an explicit reclamation project, to try to restore the land as best they could to the way it was prior to 1893. That is exactly what they are doing. It is a condition of the conservation district use permit [1] and has already begun [2]. 1. https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/mk/files/2017/09/882-BLNR-FOFCOLDO.pdf https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/mk/files/2017/09/882-BLNR-FOFCOLDO.p..., p. 30, sec. E; p. 66 #351 2. https://www.hawaii.edu/news/2023/08/28/removal-of-caltech-telescope-underway/ https://www.hawaii.edu/news/2023/08/28/removal-of-caltech-te...