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The common theme I've noticed is that they are extremely charming and interesting people to talk to. Adam Neumann might be the best example of a CEO that was p

by chinchilla2020 3y ago

The common theme I've noticed is that they are extremely charming and interesting people to talk to. Adam Neumann might be the best example of a CEO that was propelled into billions on charisma alone. We love the story of the heroic CEO that inspires everyone.

ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
I actually think that Adam Neumann has real talent in building a brand/product. He may have sold the top of a worthless company, but he did so masterfully.
- Forgeties79 3y ago
  No doubt he’s a great hype man. If an adult had steered the company and let him be the megaphone, perhaps the story of WeWork would be different! Or maybe it was always flawed lol we’ll never know I guess.
- underlipton 3y ago
  "Talent" is an interesting way to put it. There has to be buy-in on the other end, of course. Being realistic: how far would he have gotten shilling his pump-and-dump as someone with a similar background who was >black >a woman >disabled >short >lacking his luscious head of hair ? I think the reality distortion field tends to fail in those cases. His product was a sham and his brand cratered when that was exposed, so it's probably wrong to call him "talented" in that regard. Rather, it's more correct to say he possessed qualities (earned and not) that, even today, inspire positive feelings in many. That's unassailable, as we sit here today talking about someone who objectively ruined thousands of lives as someone with "real talent" and not potential "guillotine fruit" or a "cement shoe male model."
  - foobiekr 3y ago
    appearance isn't independent from charisma.
  - oooyay 3y ago
    Kim Kardashian did it pretty well with crypto. Elizabeth Holmes was exceedingly good at what she did. Brian Kolfage did exceedingly well at conning people into millions. Bernie Madoff was only 5'7'', SBF is only 5'8''. This is a short and certainly non-exhaustive list. I think given sufficient charisma and just enough but not too much mystery around the product alongside short term promising returns anybody can fall for what's being sold.
    - underlipton 3y ago
      It's not a binary. Kim Kardashian set the Western beauty standard for a few years, Elizabeth Holmes and SBF had direct relatives with exceedingly helpful credentials and connections, Brian Kolfage is a decorated veteran who looks "normal" (in our image-obsessed culture) in any bust shots you may find of him, and Madoff started his career when the average height was lower (and followed the pattern of shorter men not becoming hugely successful until later in their careers). Most of the people on your list also benefited hugely from affinity bias in some shape or form, which probably speaks to a large component of what's actually going on here. A marginalized identity can be disqualifying for most would-be marks, but another aspect (or even the same aspect!) of one's identity or presentation can override people's critical faculties and lead them to trust you when they otherwise wouldn't. This itself is an aspect of "charisma" (or the lack thereof). My point is that it's not a product of one's effort, and is, in fact, so out of one's hands that its read can change depending on the audience.
      - oooyay 3y ago
        I disagree that this somehow disqualifies their marginalization that they started with. They may have had another characteristics about their lives that affected that marginalization in unexpected ways. For instance, before Kim Kardashian was the "western beauty standard" she was effectively a nobody who did a pornography film with an R&B artist. Generally we regard sex workers as marginalized by default and yet the way she maneuvered everything made it like rocket fuel to her career. Had she messed that up we'd be talking about her more like Paris Hilton, who had vastly different outcomes. Brian Kolfage was similar; the man has to travel in a wheel chair and has a prosthetic hand most of the time, so I heavily disagree that he's relatable to any degree. You may have a point about Holmes and SBF, but I rather doubt many of the people who did business with them knew their parents. That's to say, I think you can find an abundance of reasons to eschew someones marginalization once they're successful. That's what intersectionality tries to address, and your reply seems to be the antithesis to intersectionality.
  - surgical_fire 3y ago
    >a woman Not going to comment on the other cohorts, but at least there's a good representation for this one in Elizabeth Holmes.
belter 3y ago
Masters of Bullshit... - https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/01/14/watch-cnbcs-full-interview-with-ashton-kutcher-and-wework-ceo-adam-neumann.html https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/01/14/watch-cnbcs-full-inter...

ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago

I actually think that Adam Neumann has real talent in building a brand/product. He may have sold the top of a worthless company, but he did so masterfully.

Forgeties79 3y ago
No doubt he’s a great hype man. If an adult had steered the company and let him be the megaphone, perhaps the story of WeWork would be different! Or maybe it was always flawed lol we’ll never know I guess.
underlipton 3y ago
"Talent" is an interesting way to put it. There has to be buy-in on the other end, of course. Being realistic: how far would he have gotten shilling his pump-and-dump as someone with a similar background who was >black >a woman >disabled >short >lacking his luscious head of hair ? I think the reality distortion field tends to fail in those cases. His product was a sham and his brand cratered when that was exposed, so it's probably wrong to call him "talented" in that regard. Rather, it's more correct to say he possessed qualities (earned and not) that, even today, inspire positive feelings in many. That's unassailable, as we sit here today talking about someone who objectively ruined thousands of lives as someone with "real talent" and not potential "guillotine fruit" or a "cement shoe male model."
- foobiekr 3y ago
  appearance isn't independent from charisma.
- oooyay 3y ago
  Kim Kardashian did it pretty well with crypto. Elizabeth Holmes was exceedingly good at what she did. Brian Kolfage did exceedingly well at conning people into millions. Bernie Madoff was only 5'7'', SBF is only 5'8''. This is a short and certainly non-exhaustive list. I think given sufficient charisma and just enough but not too much mystery around the product alongside short term promising returns anybody can fall for what's being sold.
  - underlipton 3y ago
    It's not a binary. Kim Kardashian set the Western beauty standard for a few years, Elizabeth Holmes and SBF had direct relatives with exceedingly helpful credentials and connections, Brian Kolfage is a decorated veteran who looks "normal" (in our image-obsessed culture) in any bust shots you may find of him, and Madoff started his career when the average height was lower (and followed the pattern of shorter men not becoming hugely successful until later in their careers). Most of the people on your list also benefited hugely from affinity bias in some shape or form, which probably speaks to a large component of what's actually going on here. A marginalized identity can be disqualifying for most would-be marks, but another aspect (or even the same aspect!) of one's identity or presentation can override people's critical faculties and lead them to trust you when they otherwise wouldn't. This itself is an aspect of "charisma" (or the lack thereof). My point is that it's not a product of one's effort, and is, in fact, so out of one's hands that its read can change depending on the audience.
    - oooyay 3y ago
      I disagree that this somehow disqualifies their marginalization that they started with. They may have had another characteristics about their lives that affected that marginalization in unexpected ways. For instance, before Kim Kardashian was the "western beauty standard" she was effectively a nobody who did a pornography film with an R&B artist. Generally we regard sex workers as marginalized by default and yet the way she maneuvered everything made it like rocket fuel to her career. Had she messed that up we'd be talking about her more like Paris Hilton, who had vastly different outcomes. Brian Kolfage was similar; the man has to travel in a wheel chair and has a prosthetic hand most of the time, so I heavily disagree that he's relatable to any degree. You may have a point about Holmes and SBF, but I rather doubt many of the people who did business with them knew their parents. That's to say, I think you can find an abundance of reasons to eschew someones marginalization once they're successful. That's what intersectionality tries to address, and your reply seems to be the antithesis to intersectionality.
- surgical_fire 3y ago
  >a woman Not going to comment on the other cohorts, but at least there's a good representation for this one in Elizabeth Holmes.

belter 3y ago

Masters of Bullshit... - https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/01/14/watch-cnbcs-full-interview-with-ashton-kutcher-and-wework-ceo-adam-neumann.html https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/01/14/watch-cnbcs-full-inter...